NBA 2K15 Badge Analysis: Lob City Finisher

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigT34

I think it was Leftos who pointed out that they crunched data on NBA injuries and found that injuries are ~2x as common as they are in NBA 2K, and that most people, devs included, would have no enjoyment of MyLeague/MyGM if injuries were truly realistic.

Honestly to me it seems like they overload on ticky-tack injuries and then major injuries don't last long enough. I don't think I'd necessarily mind more injuries so long as every team was afflicted by them.

If anything, longer injuries actually place an onus on the player to make a trade to fill a key player's void. Though I'd admit 10-day contracts are the preferable route and I don't believe they are in the game yet.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigT34

There's a huge disconnect between what we THINK real basketball looks like and what real basketball actually looks like, and to some degree, most people don't want a perfectly realistic basketball game, no matter how much they say they do.

Defense is something that is a long way from replication (2K defense is essentially 24/7 blocking fouls IRL). However I've always found the game performs better as you limit dunk abuse, it creates a wider array of strategic options, which is why Da_Czar is overhauling the playbooks in the first place.

[BigT34]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Honestly to me it seems like they overload on ticky-tack injuries and then major injuries don't last long enough. I don't think I'd necessarily mind more injuries so long as every team was afflicted by them. If anything, longer injuries actually place an onus on the player to make a trade to fill a key player's void. Though I'd admit 10-day contracts are the preferable route and I don't believe they are in the game yet.

Yeah. I don't think the game can yet handle a more realistic injury system until roster management gets more options--10 day contracts, a D-League from which to call up players, etc.

[mgrand15]

I hope 2K is taking notes. This + your analysis on Dimer would really help balance the game.

[KehliahoMauiFootball]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yesh2k

Isn't this about abilty rather than numbers attempted? Take Blake, just because he doesn't finish oops as frequently as he once did, does that mean he's lost the ability to do so?

good point. this is why analytics don't paint nearly the whole picture. it's just a small slice of the pie.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yesh2k

Isn't this about abilty rather than numbers attempted? Take Blake, just because he doesn't finish oops as frequently as he once did, does that mean he's lost the ability to do so?

With such a significant drop, I think it's fair to say the answer is YES. He wouldn't be the first player to shy away from super athletic plays as he gets older (Vince Carter says hi).

With the miles he's already logged it's fair to say he's not as springy as he was 5 years ago... bear in mind he's the top rated dunker in 2K HISTORY with 99 Driving Dunk, 99 Standing Dunk, and every Gold Posterizer/LobFinisher/TransitionFinisher.

I didn't take the badge away but did reduce it's quality. This means DeAndre becomes a player's prime lob target, which reflects reality.

Quote:

Besides which, if myplayers were lobbing up oops all the time, and no one was finishing them, or constantly laying them up, then the community would moan about that.

Nah, they would get smarter about the alley oops they attempt. Watch this game.



1:20 - DeAndre Jordan (alley-oop, pick and roll)
2:27 - Blake Griffin (post entry)
2:47 - Timofey Mozgov (alley-oop, pick and roll)
2:55 - Blake Griffin (cheese)
3:25 - DeAndre Jordan (alley-oop)
6:10 - LeBron James (and-1)
7:16 - Blake Griffin (cheese)
7:45 - Iman Shumpert (fastbreak)
8:20 - Iman Shumpert (fastbreak)
9:09 - Blake Griffin (fastbreak)
9:35 - Blake Griffin (alley-oop, this one is LOL because CP3 just runs over the defender)
10:25 - DeAndre Jordan (alley-oop)
11:13 - Jamal Crawford (Isolation)
12:25 - Timofey Mozgov (pick and roll)
14:37 - Blake Griffin (post entry)
15:37 - Blake Griffin (give and go... executed by bounce passing DeAndre Jordan)
15:50 - Kevin Love (Isolation on DeAndre Jordan)
17:15 - Blake Griffin (cheese)
19:15 - Blake Griffin (alley-oop.... this one is a prime example of what I'm talking about).
19:38 - LeBron James (alley-oop, fastbreak)
21:28 - Iman Shumpert (alley-oop, fastbreak)
21:52 - Kyrie Irving (fastbreak)
22:22 - LeBron James (Isolation)
23:07 - Blake Griffin (alley-oop, watch the badges magnetize him to the rim)
24:40 - Tristan Thompson (post entry)
26:40 - Blake Griffin (cheese)
28:10 - Tristan Thompson (cheese)
28:20 - Blake Griffin (alley-oop, you gotta be ****ing kidding me on this one)
29:48 - LeBron James (alley-oop, fastbreak)
31:35 - Blake Griffin (offensive rebound)

There were 11 Alley-Oop dunks executed in this game. Four by me, seven by my opponent.
The situations I executed were three fastbreaks and one pick & roll (one half-court situation).
All seven of my opponent's alley oops were executed were in the half-court, and some were even heavily contested. My opponent's strategy in a basketball game was ultimately "press two buttons together, profit". This is what badge & rating imbalances create.

My opponent faltered in OT because he started to over-do it and forced bad lob passes (because he couldn't create offense consistent offense any other way). 14 points from half-court alley-oops is the only reason the game was remotely close. His shot selection was terrible but the badges gave him enough free points that he actually lead most of the game before I forced OT.

Yeah, basketball games will always have a casual crowd, just like any other genre, but making it harder isn't going to stop them from buying/playing the game. There's nothing wrong with dunking every single play IF you earn it. Rewarding high level play is what makes games great. Every single person here can very easily play a game like League of Legends FOR FREE and get a balanced, competitive experience, with a multitude of strategic options.

The onus is on 2K to meet with industry standard as far as competitive balance is concerned, because everyone has a higher standard for gaming now and moving forward. The only PS4 game I own right now is NBA 2K15, and that's because I'm comfortable playing LOL for free, a free game on my mobile, and one other free PC game. I even let my PS4 online service expire and won't renew it until I get an itch to play an Online 2K game again, something that would have been unthinkable to me two years ago. 2K (and other console sports games) will fall behind if "free" games can make a 24/7 commitment to improving their product, rather than once a year (with the game launch consisting of a beta and the patch being the official release of the game).

[BigT34]

Quote: Originally Posted by KehliahoMauiFootball

good point. this is why analytics don't paint nearly the whole picture. it's just a small slice of the pie.

I'm not sure what this sentence means?

There's two main ways you'd assess a player's ability to finish alley-oops:
1) Watching them
2) Looking at the actual numbers of made alley oops as well as attempts

The issue here, in both cases, is that alley-oops are very rare events. KJ McDaniels is 8-8 on the year, can jump really high, and is very coordinated. Whether you are using stats or the eye test, you've only got a total of 8 events on which to judge his ability.

The limitation is small sample size, and that applies to both analytics and the eye test here.

[Real2KInsider]

Followup:

ALLEY-OOP DUNKS (Team)
84 Mavericks (Chandler 63, Wright 18... Amare up next)
78 Clippers (Jordan 73)
51 Pistons (Drummond 48)
50 Cavaliers (Thompson 26, Mozgov 13 in 515 mins)
43 Rockets (Howard 40)
35 Suns (Wright 10, Plumlee 10)
35 Pelicans (Davis 34)
35 Heat (Whiteside 17 in 489 minutes)
32 Nuggets (Faried 10)
31 Warriors (Bogut 17)
29 Nets (Plumlee 21)
27 Raptors (Ross 8)
22 Jazz (Gobert 17)
22 Sixers (Noel 9)
22 Thunder (Roberson 7)
22 Blazers (Robinson 7)
21 Bucks (Henson 8)
19 Wizards (Gortat 6)
17 Kings (McLemore 9)
17 Magic (Dedmon 5)
14 Wolves (Wiggins 5)
13 Knicks (Dalembert 5)
12 Hawks (Horford 9)
11 Bulls (Butler 5)
11 Lakers (Davis 5)
11 Hornets (Biyombo 7)
9 Celtics (Green 7)
5 Grizzlies (Green 2)
1 Pacers (Mahinmi 1)
1 Spurs (Ayres 1)

There are only four teams that average an alley-oop dunk per game.
DeAndre Jordan and Tyson Chandler have more Alley-Oop dunks than 28 other teams.
Beyond Jeff Green, the bottom four teams don't even attempt alley-oops.
Half the league hasn't even hit 20 on the year (Again, I refer to my Online game where there were 11 Alley-Oops between the two of us).