Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

[vtcrb]

Quote: Originally Posted by DC

In other words, you are telling me stop asking for new ratings because that would be more stuff for you to edit? My bad

Must not be a STAT he could use. LOL

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by DC

In other words, you are telling me stop asking for new ratings because that would be more stuff for you to edit? My bad

Adding a new attribute is something that 2K needs to edit and code. As such there needs to be a strong case/application for it.

A deeper explanation of what separates this from the regular potential rating in relation to current player growth/progression would be useful.

Quote: Originally Posted by vtcrb

Must not be a STAT he could use. LOL

LOL I guess you're still mad that I didn't sign your Twitter petition. Hop off.

[FiskWilson]

Well I've already seen players in MyLeague/MyGM develop a certain way based on their default player style and training.

A defensive player's defensive attributes would improve faster than their offensive and etc.

Just change their training and they'll focus on those parts of their game.

[vtcrb]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Adding a new attribute is something that 2K needs to edit and code. As such there needs to be a strong case/application for it. A deeper explanation of what separates this from the regular potential rating in relation to current player growth/progression would be useful. LOL I guess you're still mad that I didn't sign your Twitter petition. Hop off.

No i just find it Funny IF an idea isnt yours on here you shoot it down. DC has a VALID topic so I wont derail it.

2k has asked for ways to improve 2k16 and this is a Solid Suggestion. Of course they will have New Attributes next year and this would just Add to the Depth. It would gives guys a way to Create the Next Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Mark Eaton, etc.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by vtcrb

No i just find it Funny IF an idea isnt yours on here you shoot it down. DC has a VALID topic so I wont derail it.

1. I don't post my ideas on this forum.

2. Asking for more specific application =/= dismissing. Given his posted example it wouldn't make a significant difference, certainly not enough for 2K to spend time splitting and re-coding the attribute.

3. I am allowed to disagree with DC's opinion, and posted my own equally valid reasoning. I've never been one for herd mentality. A developer would ask the same questions if presented in this manner.

Quote:

2k has asked for ways to improve 2k16 and this is a Solid Suggestion. Of course they will have New Attributes next year and this would just Add to the Depth. It would gives guys a way to Create the Next Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Mark Eaton, etc.

You are missing the point that those players were already elite defensively when they entered the NBA and thus their defensive skills didn't develop at an exponentially higher rate than their offensive skills.

(Nor would I consider the GOAT rebounder, a 26-year old rookie drafted 72nd Overall, or an undrafted super-role player to be more than the corner case examples I am talking about. How does this apply to the other 5,000 NBA players that have come and gone over the last 30 years?)

Player progression/regression can certainly be re-worked, but the Potential rating is not specifically the issue.

[vtcrb]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

1. I don't post my ideas on this forum. 2. Asking for more specific application =/= dismissing. Given his posted example it wouldn't make a significant difference, certainly not enough for 2K to spend time splitting and re-coding the attribute. You are missing the point that those players were already elite defensively when they entered the NBA and thus their defensive skills didn't develop at an exponentially higher rate than their offensive skills. Player progression/regression can certainly be re-worked, but the Potential rating is not specifically the issue.

I dont consider Anyone Elite when they come into the NBA. Now they were alot better on Defense than Offense, but still had room to grow. With 2k's system as is Yes they Could Progress to Elite Defensive Status, But All 3 could also turn into 15ppg scorers as well. If we had a Potential Rating for Both OFF and DEF it could lead to alot more Variance.

I would even be happy if you could have an Edit to where you could Assign a "Player Comparison". You could break it into 2 Categories. 1 would be the Level the player could reach Role Player, All Star , etc and the 2nd could be around 25-50 Player Comparisons to former NBA Players.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by vtcrb

I dont consider Anyone Elite when they come into the NBA.

That's nice to say but you just used three Defensive Players of the Year to make your argument.

Mark Eaton lead the league in Block rate his first three seasons in the league. He was All-Defensive 1st Team in his second season. Ironically enough his Block rate DECLINED each year rather than progress, which is a strike against him as an example..

Dennis Rodman was All-Defensive First team in his third season and guarded multiple positions right from the outset of his career.

Ben Wallace did not get any accolades in his first four seasons because he played on teams that could not support his offensive ineptitude (consequently, not enough MPG to get awards). It was clear from the outset that he was an elite defensive player, given the short list of players in NBA history with his Reb/Stl/Blk rates.

Quote:

Now they were alot better on Defense than Offense, but still had room to grow.

There is nothing to suggest their defensive growth differed any from any other NBA player. A player who who starts at 85 Defensive Awareness and peaks at 95 did not experience anymore growth than a player who started at 50 and peaked at 60. You are only looking at narrow ELITE cases when the vast majority of players are NOT these cases.

Can you name a player from the 2014 draft class with high "defensive potential" that is currently a bad defensive player?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2014.html

This whole discussion is very narrow as a whole as it aims to simplify player progression by further tying it down to Potential, without actually understanding the nature of IRL player progression itself.

Is there anyone out there who thinks Elfrid Payton and Marcus Smart will be better offensive players than defensive players in their careers? Or that Doug McDermott will go from scorer to defensive stopper as his career goes on? This is case in point for why it's not inherently necessary.

Quote:

With 2k's system as is Yes they Could Progress to Elite Defensive Status, But All 3 could also turn into 15ppg scorers as well. If we had a Potential Rating for Both OFF and DEF it could lead to alot more Variance.

Please sim a couple seasons with Nerlens Noel before you make these claims.

[vtcrb]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

That's nice to say but you just used three Defensive Players of the Year to make your argument. Mark Eaton lead the league in Block rate his first three seasons in the league. He was All-Defensive 1st Team in his second season. Ironically enough his Block rate DECLINED each year rather than progress, which is a strike against him as an example.. Dennis Rodman was All-Defensive First team in his third season and guarded multiple positions right from the outset of his career. Ben Wallace did not get any accolades in his first four seasons because he played on teams that could not support his offensive ineptitude (consequently, not enough MPG to get awards). It was clear from the outset that he was an elite defensive player, given the short list of players in NBA history with his Reb/Stl/Blk rates. There is nothing to suggest their defensive growth differed any from any other NBA player. A player who who starts at 85 Defensive Awareness and peaks at 95 did not experience anymore growth than a player who started at 50 and peaked at 60. You are only looking at narrow ELITE cases when the vast majority of players are NOT these cases. Can you name a player from the 2014 draft class with high "defensive potential" that is currently a bad defensive player? http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2014.html This whole discussion is very narrow as a whole as it aims to simplify player progression by further tying it down to Potential, without actually understanding the nature of IRL player progression itself. Is there anyone out there who thinks Elfrid Payton and Marcus Smart will be better offensive players than defensive players in their careers? Or that Doug McDermott will go from scorer to defensive stopper as his career goes on? This is case in point for why it's not inherently necessary. Please sim a couple seasons with Nerlens Noel before you make these claims.

As I said NONE came in as ELITE Defenders. All guys had to Improve their Defense Awareness and learn the NBA game in General.

Block Shots went down for Eaton, because guys stopped Challenging him as much. That Simple. Eaton was a great low post defender. If you go Simply by Block Shots, Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley are Elite.

Rodman came in and Relied on his Physical Tools to help for his mistakes early in his Career. He was Always solid on Ball Defender, but didnt become Elite until he was in the League a few years.

And IF you are an Elite Defender, no matter how bad your Offense You will play in the NBA. If a Player comes in as an Elite Defender he doesnt play in Only 34 games. Even stuck behind CWebb and Howard he is gonna get 5-10 MPG. Then he goes to Orlando and I guess John Amaechi's Offensive Skills kept him Only getting 24mpg? No it had to do with him Improving his Defensive Court Awareness and Defensive Positioning, because his Offensive game never improved, his scoring improved due to more Off Rebounds.