Is this Cheese or is it Sim: Strong Side Zone PnR Blitz Defence

[tetoleetd]

Quote: Originally Posted by itchyroll_51

Well said Coach ! I agree with you that i made the CPU too effective on defence. I am hell bent on replicating NBA schemes that's why i created this strong side zone blitz D as inspired by Thibodeau and Spolestra. It is a real NBA defense just like someone else said here, but in a sim first world I can see why this is "cheap". BUT I want everyone to know there is a sim counter to this (i designed the system so i know how to break it haha): Set freelance to 3-2 Motion Cuts before hand Call Quick Iso (via touchpad or d-pad before you pass; this will take 0.5 seconds) That counter will destroy this alive, my 2K lab partner Lady TwoWay made sure of that lol .....

running an iso every possession is not a sim counter. just so you know.

if there is only one thing a person can do to beat your defense and they have to do it repeatedly every possesion to stand a chance, you're probably cheesin.

[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by tetoleetd

running an iso every possession is not a sim counter. just so you know. if there is only one thing a person can do to beat your defense and they have to do it repeatedly every possesion to stand a chance, you're probably cheesin.

No no the ISO isnt actually for isolation per ce. The input of the ISO allows the AI on offence to reset back to its freelance, (3-2 motion cuts or 4-1 space the floor), from there you will have to make smart passes and read + react. This will beat PnR Blitz and traps because you AI teammates will behave much more intelligently via freelance. The ISO is just a quick way to reset into a freelance of your choice, not actually running an isolation attack. Hope this makes sense ^_^

Doing a quick ISO actually opens up your offence to whole new sets of passing options. Holding L1 for smart play will also work to beat doubles. The AI spacing is only dumb if you let it be dumb ^_^

[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by tetoleetd

running an iso every possession is not a sim counter. just so you know. if there is only one thing a person can do to beat your defense and they have to do it repeatedly every possesion to stand a chance, you're probably cheesin.

One more counter for fun ^^ Run a 3-2 offence with David Weat or Paul George at the 4 then set pick and fades around the high post. This will also lead to major breakdowns if the defence decides to trap the PnR. I do this a lot online vs double team players.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Im curious why anyone chooses to force a ball handler to the middle of the floor, 2K or real life. Offenses can do lots more nasty stuff from the middle of the floor than the wings.

[PandaPower2k]

I think we had a similar discussion in MyTeam subforum a few months back.

This is not new, I mean, a lot of players (MyTeam/PC) have been doing this for a long time, especially if they are bad at defending Pick&Rolls.

This double-team defense is very simple. It doesn't need any skill, effort or any adjustment to execute really. All you need to do is; Send your PF (the quicker he is, the more effective) to doubleteam the ball handler, while you manually control your Center to cover the passing lanes to the opponents PF and C.

This doesn't work, if your opponent plays 4-1 offense, because then your Center won't be able to cover both your opponents PF and C at the same time. Since their PF will be well spaced and far away from the C. And that is about it.

For me, it is definitely cheese and not SIM, even if you claim to use it only to defend P&Rs. And most people use it because they don't want to deal with P&Rs / Set plays anyway. "Why bother when you can make CPU deal with it?"

If you controlled one of the double teamers manually then I could understand and approve of your passion to use Blitz defense. But sending a player other than "the defender of the ball handler or the defender of the roll man" to double team, and making the CPU do all the job, is cheap.


I don't like using it myself because;

- Trying to manually defend P&Rs is a challenge, perhaps the only real one in the game. Trying to read and react to screens, go under some, go over some, switch some, hedge some, show up or actively double some... This is the fun part of the game for me. It is something I look forward to...
- It is effortless, it doesn't require any skill really... Doesn't improve my game.
- Compared to how easy it is to perform, it is way too hard to defend... It feels unfair, makes me feel bad for my opponent.
- It is unrealistic, only a few players should be able to apply that much pressure and force that many turnovers by double teaming. For some reason in this game, even the best passers turn the ball over, even the most offensively aware players get easily trapped, when doubled by lesser defenders...

And I don't like playing against people that use it because;

- It makes the game less fun. I can easily beat it, but it forces me to play a certain style of basketball, something I might not enjoy alway and doing over and over again.

[City_foxx]

Well said panda. Its cheese End thread.

[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by PandaPower2k

I think we had a similar discussion in MyTeam subforum a few months back. This is not new, I mean, a lot of players (MyTeam/PC) have been doing this for a long time, especially if they are bad at defending Pick&Rolls. This double-team defense is very simple. It doesn't need any skill, effort or any adjustment to execute really. All you need to do is; Send your PF (the quicker he is, the more effective) to doubleteam the ball handler, while you manually control your Center to cover the passing lanes to the opponents PF and C. This doesn't work, if your opponent plays 4-1 offense, because then your Center won't be able to cover both your opponents PF and C at the same time. Since their PF will be well spaced and far away from the C. And that is about it. For me, it is definitely cheese and not SIM, even if you claim to use it only to defend P&Rs. And most people use it because they don't want to deal with P&Rs / Set plays anyway. "Why bother when you can make CPU deal with it?" If you controlled one of the double teamers manually then I could understand and approve of your passion to use Blitz defense. But sending a player other than "the defender of the ball handler or the defender of the roll man" to double team, and making the CPU do all the job, is cheap. I don't like using it myself because; - Trying to manually defend P&Rs is a challenge, perhaps the only real one in the game. Trying to read and react to screens, go under some, go over some, switch some, hedge some, show up or actively double some... This is the fun part of the game for me. It is something I look forward to... - It is effortless, it doesn't require any skill really... Doesn't improve my game. - Compared to how easy it is to perform, it is way too hard to defend... It feels unfair, makes me feel bad for my opponent. - It is unrealistic, only a few players should be able to apply that much pressure and force that many turnovers by double teaming. For some reason in this game, even the best passers turn the ball over, even the most offensively aware players get easily trapped, when doubled by lesser defenders... And I don't like playing against people that use it because; - It makes the game less fun. I can easily beat it, but it forces me to play a certain style of basketball, something I might not enjoy alway and doing over and over again.

Hey Panda ! The MYTEAM version was cheese so I scrapped it ^_^ This one I only blitz PnR and only use the screen defender to double. I also switch to the ball handler's defender during the double if the weakside holds up alright (you can see it with Luol Deng and Dragic in the vid.)

So it seems like the consensus is that using computer to defend on ball action is cheese. I have always been about maintaining the chain on defence to ensure there's no breakage anywhere; if i need to go on ball I will and if I need to go off ball I will do that too. You can see on the vid I constanly switch between on ball and off ball during defensive Posessions. I believe that's a more optimal way of playing and it feels more like a NBA defence that way.

However OS has spoken haha An unfortunately even this version of the blitz is cheese >_<

Quick question: There were Posessions where I didn't blitz and only relied on my NAPP system Strong Side Zone Man to Man D; would you consider that system sim or cheese ??

[2_headedmonster]

Quote: Originally Posted by itchyroll_51

Hey Panda ! The MYTEAM version was cheese so I scrapped it ^_^ This one I only blitz PnR and only use the screen defender to double. I also switch to the ball handler's defender during the double if the weakside holds up alright (you can see it with Luol Deng and Dragic in the vid.) So it seems like the consensus is that using computer to defend on ball action is cheese. I have always been about maintaining the chain on defence to ensure there's no breakage anywhere; if i need to go on ball I will and if I need to go off ball I will do that too. You can see on the vid I constanly switch between on ball and off ball during defensive Posessions. I believe that's a more optimal way of playing and it feels more like a NBA defence that way. However OS has spoken haha An unfortunately even this version of the blitz is cheese >_< Quick question: There were Posessions where I didn't blitz and only relied on my NAPP system Strong Side Zone Man to Man D; would you consider that system sim or cheese ??

Its an actual basketball tactic, and can be countered with other basketball tactics, so i wouldn't call it cheese.

Its just that some of the tactics that should beat it, cant because of 2ks short comings. But with the common 2k theme being overpowered offense, a defensive measure that can be countered shouldn't be categorized as "cheese" or "un-sim". Actually in regards to passing, 2k isnt sim enough.