People get way too hung up on overall ratings

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic

Kobe only played 35 games last year and has been perpetually injured for the last two seasons. I predict he'll do better in 2016 than the 37% you knocked him for. And actually, that's another reason he'd be less valuable than Iggy-- the fact that he's constantly fighting injury.

I don't completely disagree, especially about the injuries, but that at the very least should be in the ratings. It should lower both his actual value and his 2K value.

Instead he's one of two players where injures become an excuse for poor performance and shields them from drops for multiple seasons when it should be the other way around (like KD getting a drop though the prognosis for that injury is much, much better).

[Mauer4MVP]

I disagree. Overall in a perfect world gives you their overall value. Obviously when playing games it doesn't matter as much, but for simulating games it can make a big difference.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic

It doesn't make sense to say "So and so is too high" or "X should be higher than Y." Overall ratings are not a linear means of determining how good a player is in the game. Badges, teammates, how you use them, position, and a bunch of other things matter. Just saying. KG was literally a 101 overall one year, but 2004 KG is not the greatest player of all time.

1996 Michael Jordan = 107 OVR

Anyway I disagree, OVR is great when properly applicated, the problem is 2K really only gets it right for three positions at best.

[NDAlum]

I agree that it's too much of a focal point when debating who is better. I would rather the overall be hidden and the individual attributes were all we had to decide who is the better player.

You would actually put who is the better fit for your scheme in the lineup over somebody with a better overall. At least that's how I would approach this system.

[ClipsFanSince98]

Yes and no. You have guys like Dirk who are so unorthodox for their positions that it hurts their overall BUT they still destroy. Then you have guys like Blake Griffin who are just flat out underrated and if you let the game sim he will average 18/10. As others have pointed out specifically the Jamal vs Redick thing annoys the crap out of me. Jamal is an 81 or 83 in recent seasons yet Griffin only an 84 or 85 and Redick like a 74 or whatever it is?

Griffin should definitely be 88-90 as the 7th or 8th best player in the NBA and I'm tired of having to manually boost his hands, passing, handles ratings which are underrated. Hell one recent year his dunk was only like 86 or something like that! Then Jamal Crawford should be down to like a 70 and Redick who's the much better all around player should be around 77.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

1996 Michael Jordan = 107 OVR

In what game? And if anything, that proves my point somewhat-- that Jordan is the same Jordan who got locked by a hobbled Gary Payton in the Finals. One would probably not expect someone with such a high overall (on an amazing team built to his strengths) to be capable of being shut down, much less by a player who has a lingering leg injury (unless, of course, you use OVR as the be-all end-all). And generally, either 1988 or 1991 are considered Jordan's best individual years, I believe.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Anyway I disagree, OVR is great when properly applicated, the problem is 2K really only gets it right for three positions at best.

In your opinion. That's one of my points. There's too much subjectivity.

Also, I could have two players rated 90 OVR each, and have them switch places, and they'd obviously retain their overall ratings, but I bet they wouldn't retain the same effectiveness.

[ClipsFanSince98]

Quote: Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic

In what game? And if anything, that proves my point somewhat-- that Jordan is the same Jordan who got locked by a hobbled Gary Payton in the Finals. I have my doubts of doing that in the game to someone with such high ratings (and generally, either 1988 or 1991 are considered Jordan's best individual years, I believe). In your opinion. That's one of my points. There's too much subjectivity. Also, I could have two players rated 90 OVR each, and have them switch places, and they'd obviously retain their overall ratings, but I bet they wouldn't retain the same effectiveness.

That's a misnomer that Payton "locked up" Jordan and I say that as a guy who's favorite all time player is GP. Payton really only did that in 2 games at most you could argue. He played him better than pretty much anyone else for a series, but Jordan still came through. Locked up to me is a guy scoring 10 points or shooting 30 percent etc, not a guy scoring 27 ppg on a few percentage points down on shooting.

Jordan still basically put up 27/5/5/2.

That series was a very defensive one and the Bulls were the better defensive team despite Payton's defense.

[RyanFitzmagic]

With Gary Payton guarding him, Jordan scored like 28 PPG on sub-50% true shooting. For context, those are basically Iverson numbers, and Jordan's true shooting percentage is typically high 50s at worst.

I remember watching that series-- in the first game Jordan was being guarded by Payton, he couldn't throw a rock in the ocean during the first half (despite the fact that Payton actually didn't contest some of his jumpers), his team went down double-digits, and he eventually lost his cool and got a technical. Gary Payton seriously did work on Jordan in that series.

EDIT: I just did the math. In the last three games (starting in Game 4), Jordan averaged 23.7 PPG on 48.7% TS (36.7% from the field). If that's not locking Jordan, I don't know what is. Those are Wizards Jordan numbers.