Why it should be Ratings over Real Life %........

[Comduklakis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

Reposting my response from the other thread: Ratings are based off percentages. Curry shoots 50%+ when wide open in real life and should do so in game. There's no in-game mechanic that says Curry shoots 40% regardless of situation, nor should there be, nor has anyone asked for that. Sim folks who cite percentages want accurate results for the precise situation the game models, not some generic percentage that doesn't factor any context in. The game should model the success rates for the exact situation in real life and cover all variables and complexities, and that's what it attempts to do. There is no mechanism that says "Curry will only shoot 40% regardless of defense", and to think so is badly misunderstanding the game. Saying you don't care about percentages basically amounts to not caring about objectivity and preferring uninformed, casual subjective evaluations like "he shouldn't miss cause he's really good and stuff". Sims can't be built this way, because the next person can say "well Dellavedova shuts Curry down so Curry should miss like everything anytime they match up". You know how we know that's not objectively true? Percentages.

exactly. I've been playing offline with real shooting % for years in franchise mode after franchise mode. Guess what? Guys have games and even years where they don't shoot what they are "supposed to" IRL. Or they shoot way better. Real shooting % is nothing more than taking the timing out of the equation (and can't speak for sure that timing is completely not used but I know I've been 100% ignoring any semblanc of timing or worrying about each player's shot form for years and it hasnt' impacted my shooting percentages in any noticeable way) and using how someone really shoots from each spot, with each shot type, and also factoring in how much defense is being used at that point. There is no magical script. It's basic math honestly. Curry shoots 70% from wide open, then he should shoot around that using real shooting %. Of course there is deviation, but if you simmed hundreds and hundreds of games with the same spot and same defense, it should work out to about the same percentage.

I prefer real % because I'm all about sim stats. I like it to be as realistic as possible. But what is great is that even with real % you still will have some surprising players in the league, good and bad.

[Goffs]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

People have done that already, it's just not the answer you want to hear. And then when they try to explain it, you basically dismiss them.

Yo let me show you my e-peen with my 300 wins and just ignore all the science.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by MadManCometh

So is the shooting based on RL % or ratings? I prefer a simple answer without all the science. Thanks.

It's based on context and ratings, the latter of which is based on real life percentages and situations.

This is already a very simplified version of what complicated code does to simulate real basketball. If you can't be bothered to parse that, you likely won't understand how the game works, how real basketball works, and how efforts are and should be made to get the two to correlate.

"Give me an answer about basketball and a complex piece of software without science" is like saying "explain time dilation without special relativity."

Anyway, Mike has already said step shots from a standstill are being patched so they can be boosted separate of other shots for players like Curry. You know how that's justifiable? Percentages.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by MadManCometh

Its never going to be a true sim. This is what I think ppl are missing. They want so much realism, and I get it. But we have to make our own foot steps as video game players. Know what I'm saying ? We can't be really be LebRon and James Harden. We have video game characters based on them. Can u do a step back 3 on this game like Harden does IRL? Can Curry hit those insane 3s in this game like he does IRL? No and no! So therefore the gameplay is already not sim!!! So why hold me to sim-like rules far as percentages? I'm not saying I want to shoot 100%. Because that's lame. All I'm saying, I want to be able to take advantage of what the defense gives me without the restriction of a built-in code that says, I can't burn u up from 3 becase of RL % . If ur a bad defensive player I want to be able to make u pay for it. And on the flip side, I have shut guys down and seen them hit some very bad shots because I felt like percentages was in play and he hasn't scored so it's time he hit a shot now.

The solution isn't to concoct some arcade game based on subjective evaluations because there are some flaws simulating what some players can do.

The solution is to change the game so that those players CAN do those things in the correct situations and with the correct success rates-- which is what Mike has, again, agreed to do.

The upcoming adjustment and patch was justified PRECISELY because it aims to be a sim and pointing out the mechanics and percentages for such a shot (vs the moving skill shot it was being rated as) allows it to be modeled properly and distinctly through a simulation approach.

I think that is a way better approach than "let's just make players shoot at some high arbitrary rate until MadManCometh is personally happy, because he thinks the game is scripted against him when he misses".

I don't think I want that game.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by dwayne12345

MadMan You know that SIM is about simulating real life. So what you want isn't SiM, what you want is competition in the video game. Not that there's anything wrong with that but Real Life FG % is the most sim thing possible. If Steph Curry played against the worst team in the NBA on their worst night he's not going to shoot 90% from three (on average). I admittedly don't play online because I prefer playing the CPU. Never have to deal with cheese and all that non sim play style.

This is what it comes down to. Even the worst user in the world is still controlling an NBA team, and unless they are just purposefully moving their players out of the way to give up scores, there is going to be a modicum of defense that limits the offensive success.

By the same token, even for the User with the best stick skills, not taking into account using clear exploits in the game, there is a ceiling to how much success they can have because they are controlling representations of real human beings who still will fail X percentage of the time regardless of the inferiority of the defense.

They need to create a custom online mode with just User created players and with realistic human limitations on abilities so that the OP and others of his ilk can bask in the glory of their own magnificence, i.e., shoot 85%-90% against unworthy foes.

[MadManCometh]

Quote: Originally Posted by hear me now

They already told you. It's shot timing or real%, ratings has an effect on both of those. Online play now is shot timing.

And again, is that speculation? Or is there some concrete data? Just cause some "Joe" or "bill" say something is so doesn't mean I believe that.

[MadManCometh]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

It's based on context and ratings, the latter of which is based on real life percentages and situations. This is already a very simplified version of what complicated code does to simulate real basketball. If you can't be bothered to parse that, you likely won't understand how the game works, how real basketball works, and how efforts are and should be made to get the two to correlate. "Give me an answer about basketball and a complex piece of software without science" is like saying "explain time dilation without special relativity." Anyway, Mike has already said step shots from a standstill are being patched so they can be boosted separate of other shots for players like Curry. You know how that's justifiable? Percentages.

Nevermind guy. Ur making a simple question more than what it is. Ur goin above and beyond. Relax. Ur not on a job interview here lol.

[MadManCometh]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

The solution isn't to concoct some arcade game based on subjective evaluations because there are some flaws simulating what some players can do. The solution is to change the game so that those players CAN do those things in the correct situations and with the correct success rates-- which is what Mike has, again, agreed to do. The upcoming adjustment and patch was justified PRECISELY because it aims to be a sim and pointing out the mechanics and percentages for such a shot (vs the moving skill shot it was being rated as) allows it to be modeled properly and distinctly through a simulation approach. I think that is a way better approach than "let's just make players shoot at some high arbitrary rate until MadManCometh is personally happy, because he thinks the game is scripted against him when he misses". I don't think I want that game.

U missed the point dude. Maybe u should go back and re-read some things again. It's like u guys comprehend 10% of something then fill in the other 90% with ur own thoughts.