Problems with the grading system.

[MadManCometh]

So if I take a step back 3 with Curry we all know the game is goin to grade the shot a D or F. Which is the same grade they will give Steve Blake for the same move. The problem I have is these are two different players. So why grade them the same? For one of these players that's a very make-able shot, for the other it's a difficult shot. So why not grade them as such?



IMO the game needs to grade shots based on that players attributes and ratings. Some players just need a little bit of space, some players need more space, like Mike Dunleavy. I think superstar players and star players shouldn't get as heaving penalized for taking moving shots or step backs as do other and average players. They are stars for a reason and I think the grading system should recognize that and instead of a "catch-all " system that grades everybody the same. A terrible shot for Matt Barnes may be considered a decent shot for James Harden.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

it's already headed in that direction . Take an open 3 with Deandre Jordan and Steph Curry they will have two different grades .

Ppl abused step back 3s last year so 2k had to fix it. Mike will address the low percentage in a future update though

[hanzsomehanz]

Badges should also help to influence your grade as badges help certify what abilities you are proficient in.

I say the above because I am a shot creator at heart and love to shoot skill shots off dribble from the mid range but I understand not every NBA player I take control of is skillful in this art.

Being in hot or cold rhythms should also be the anchor or anvil that rewards or punishes your choice in skill shots.

Stamina and fatigue should also influence your grades: the more duress you're under: the more the more your decision making scores should be impacted.

I don't think it's as simple as basing it on ability even if ability is a given. Say for instance you shoot over a double team and you have a teammate wide open: Curry could still make this shot but he still deserves a poor grade for this choice.

I understand the gripe with grades but I feel grades are basic cosmetics. You could falter on a green release: you could swish an F choice shot for the win.

I get it though: you want grades to more accurately reflect a player's ability based on a connection to each player's unique profile.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[MadManCometh]

IMO from my experience with the game the grades has a heavy influence on if u make the shot or not.

So in other words if u get an F most likely the shot is not goin in.

[Sundown]

For the fourth time, step backs from standstill are being addressed.

And you're exaggerating. Wide open or step backs that create spacing with Curry leads to a C-/C on average. Sometimes a B- with perfect timing.

Not a D or F unless it's contested or you're running into people or turboing like a ninny.

It would be nice to see Shot Creator have more of an effect.

[MadManCometh]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

For the fourth time, step backs from standstill are being addressed. And you're exaggerating. Wide open or step backs that create spacing with Curry leads to a C-/C on average. Sometimes a B- with perfect timing. Not a D or F unless it's contested or you're running into people or turboing like a ninny. It would be nice to see Shot Creator have more of an effect.

Dude that's not even what I'm talking about.

Are u reating or what? I mean seriously.

[ATLBrayden]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rockie_Fresh88

it's already headed in that direction . Take an open 3 with Deandre Jordan and Steph Curry they will have two different grades . Ppl abused step back 3s last year so 2k had to fix it. Mike will address the low percentage in a future update though

I agree it's headed in that direction but I don't think OP is just talking about regular shots or step backs only. I think he's saying that guys like Curry don't get the proper grade for shots they take on the regular when compared to other shooters.



EX: You can have two good three point shooters, say Curry and Korver. While Curry excels at making off the dribble shots, pull up jumpers, step backs (basically everything lol) and Korver really excels at the catch and shoot, both players will receive the same grade for shots they shouldn't (ex: Curry should receive a much higher shot grade/letter grade for an off the dribble shot than Korver, but because they both have high shot ratings it is unlikely that he does.)



The difference between what you said is that DeAndre will get a bad grade no matter what due to his 3pt rating, but if you take someone with a good 3pt rating who isn't good at off the dribble shots and put them next to someone with a good 3pt rating who is good at off the dribble shots you'll see they receive similar grades.



I went into blacktop mode 1v1 with Korver and Curry and controlled both (difficulty superstar sim):



I took the defender and moved them away from the ball handler towards the free throw line without moving the ball handler from their default position on standing deep threes.



Korver standing deep three 1: B

Korver standing deep three 2: B+

Korver standing deep three 3: B



Curry standing deep three 1: B

Curry standing deep three 2: B+

Curry standing deep three 3: B-



Korver standing regular three 1: A

Korver standing regular three 2: A+ (perfect release)

Korver standing regular three 3: A



Curry standing regular three 1: A

Curry standing regular three 2: A

Curry standing regular three 3: A+ (perfect release)



Korver moving three 1: D+

Korver moving three 2: F

Korver moving three 3: F



Curry moving three 1: C-

Curry moving three 2: C-

Curry moving three 3: C-



Korver step back three 1: A

Korver step back three 2: A

Korver step back three 3: A+ (perfect release)



Curry step back three 1: A+ (perfect release)

Curry step back three 2: A-

Curry step back three 3: A+ (perfect release)



Korver pull-up three 1: A

Korver pull-up three 2: A+ (perfect release)

Korver pull-up three 3: A



Curry pull-up three 1: A

Curry pull-up three 2: A

Curry pull-up three 3: A-



Personally I noticed Curry receives a much higher grade on moving threes which is very good but Korver received a far too high grade for step backs. Not sure how good Korver is at pull-ups in transition but I know he's pretty much just a catch and shoot marksman so his grade seems a little surprising. (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...e_this_season/)



You can see that Curry and Korver both get very high grades for step back threes while only Curry gets high grades for moving threes (most likely due to Curry's 95 moving three compared to Korver's 87 moving three). The most surprising part was how high of a grade step back threes got. Curry's moving three shot grade could possibly be boosted, a C- seems kinda low for a guy of his shooting prowess but I'm not sure what a C- translates to percentage wise so it could be good.



It seems like the discrepancy in shot grades is present, however further detail needs to be added for certain players and shots (Korver shouldn't excel at step backs threes the way Curry does).



Also agree with Hanz's post, if you get a player with two red rings (in rhythm/hot) you'll see they make a lot more shots.



I have a pretty lengthy video of me doing all this stuff if anyone wants it, and sorry if the post is a little rambly I'm writing this at 6 AM.



Here are some things in real life that I believe Curry couldn't really do in 2K (at least not as often as he does):

https://streamable.com/8fko

https://streamable.com/ybhi

https://streamable.com/j8sg

https://streamable.com/3csl (this one could go in at a good rate but it depends on what the shot penalty for moving shots off a dribble move is)

https://streamable.com/gcy1 (this one would never go in and if it did it certainly wouldn't be a swish)

http://streamable.com/7cnv

https://streamable.com/b29w

https://streamable.com/0j3o



Curry is the exception to "well he doesn't do that often it's a rare shot and you hit rare shots like that in 2K" because he does do that often and he's the best shooter in the NBA right now.



That's why we need a way for players like him to excel at hitting shots like that while others don't. Unforunately I think bringing in signature styles like this will have us see more players playing hero ball and taking insane shots when only one guy in the NBA can hit those things consistently, although I don't think it should be shied away from because of those bad apples.

[MadManCometh]

Quote: Originally Posted by ATLBrayden

I agree it's headed in that direction but I don't think OP is just talking about regular shots or step backs only. I think he's saying that guys like Curry don't get the proper grade for shots they take on the regular when compared to other shooters. EX: You can have two good three point shooters, say Curry and Korver. While Curry excels at making off the dribble shots, pull up jumpers, step backs (basically everything lol) and Korver really excels at the catch and shoot, both players will receive the same grade for shots they shouldn't (ex: Curry should receive a much higher shot grade/letter grade for an off the dribble shot than Korver, but because they both have high shot ratings it is unlikely that he does.) The difference between what you said is that DeAndre will get a bad grade no matter what due to his 3pt rating, but if you take someone with a good 3pt rating who isn't good at off the dribble shots and put them next to someone with a good 3pt rating who is good at off the dribble shots you'll see they receive similar grades. I went into blacktop mode 1v1 with Korver and Curry and controlled both (difficulty superstar sim): I took the defender and moved them away from the ball handler towards the free throw line without moving the ball handler from their default position on standing deep threes. Korver standing deep three 1: B Korver standing deep three 2: B+ Korver standing deep three 3: B Curry standing deep three 1: B Curry standing deep three 2: B+ Curry standing deep three 3: B- Korver standing regular three 1: A Korver standing regular three 2: A+ (perfect release) Korver standing regular three 3: A Curry standing regular three 1: A Curry standing regular three 2: A Curry standing regular three 3: A+ (perfect release) Korver moving three 1: D+ Korver moving three 2: F Korver moving three 3: F Curry moving three 1: C- Curry moving three 2: C- Curry moving three 3: C- Korver step back three 1: A Korver step back three 2: A Korver step back three 3: A+ (perfect release) Curry step back three 1: A+ (perfect release) Curry step back three 2: A- Curry step back three 3: A+ (perfect release) Korver pull-up three 1: A Korver pull-up three 2: A+ (perfect release) Korver pull-up three 3: A Curry pull-up three 1: A Curry pull-up three 2: A Curry pull-up three 3: A- Personally I noticed Curry receives a much higher grade on moving threes which is very good but Korver received a far too high grade for step backs. Not sure how good Korver is at pull-ups in transition but I know he's pretty much just a catch and shoot marksman so his. (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...e_this_season/) You can see that Curry and Korver both get very high grades for step back threes while only Curry gets high grades for moving threes (most likely due to Curry's 95 moving three compared to Korver's 87 moving three). The most surprising part was how high of a grade step back threes got. Curry's moving three shot grade could possibly be boosted, a C- seems kinda low for a guy of his shooting prowess but I'm not sure what a C- translates to percentage wise so it could be good. It seems like the discrepancy in shot grades is present, however further detail needs to be added for certain players and shots (Korver shouldn't excel at step backs threes the way Curry does). Also agree with Hanz's post, if you get a player with two red rings (in rhythm/hot) you'll see they make a lot more shots. I have a pretty lengthy video of me doing all this stuff if anyone wants it, and sorry if the post is a little rambly I'm writing this at 6 AM. Here are some things in real life that I believe Curry couldn't really do in 2K (at least not as often as he does): https://streamable.com/8fko https://streamable.com/ybhi https://streamable.com/j8sg https://streamable.com/3csl (this one could go in at a good rate but it depends on what the shot penalty for moving shots off a dribble move is) https://streamable.com/gcy1 (this one would never go in and if it did it certainly wouldn't be a swish) http://streamable.com/7cnv https://streamable.com/b29w https://streamable.com/0j3o Curry is the exception to "well he doesn't do that often it's a rare shot and you hit rare shots like that in 2K" because he does do that often and he's the best shooter in the NBA right now. That's why we need a way for players like him to excel at hitting shots like that while others don't. Unforunately I think bringing in signature styles like this will have us see more players playing hero ball and taking insane shots when only one guy in the NBA can hit those things consistently, although I don't think it should be shied away from because of those bad apples.

Good post dude. I just would like to see the grade more advance and grade players based on their skill set. The system now seems like a linear system that grade most players the same for the most part. A pull up 3 on the break for Melo shouldn't be graded the same for say Jimmy Butler. For melo, that's a good or at least a decent shot. For Jimmy it's not because it's not his game. But Melo will get the same bad grade as Butler, a lesser offensive player.