Post Patch On-Ball Defense

[ESRyder312]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

No, there was excessive contact at glancing angles before patch, period. Defenders could easily cut you off and any mild contact often tends to turn into a suction contact animation. Most of that would be fouls in real life. This has nothing to do with "not playing realistic", and the perimeter game was so excessively contact based that it masked the team defense issues for weeks. The issue here is that 2K may have overcompensated or not properly handled angles directly into the defender to produce contact animations. But the game should NOT be as contact heavy at the perimeter as it was with weak defenders. That's not realistic perimeter defense, at all. So please don't confuse my complaints about situations where there should be contact animations for wanting excessive and unrealistic contact back like it was pre-patch.

My second paragraph reads, "The problem is everyone here was complaining about excessive contact. While I won't comment on that, I will say that, if you watch an NBA game, there is not as much collisions because players are not mindlessly running through players."

As unrealistic as players claim the game was with the alleged excessive contact, the offensive game was and is just as unrealistic with online players holding down turbo all game and zig-zagging back and forth. The "unrealistic" contact was in response to the prevalence of unrealistic offense being played.

Now, the hordes of players who enjoy turboing to the basket from the three-point line with Dwight Howard can do so with little recourse because of the NOW unrealistic forcefield.

Again, regardless of whether people were getting "sucked" into contact, there must be contact when a player runs directly into another player. Period. To reiterate, I'm not commenting on how the game was pre-patch.

For the players who actually play the game the right way, and don't cheese, this game, post patch, has gone too far the wrong way. It's made it easier for cheesers to get around the defenders, although the game compensates with more loose balls.

One of the main reasons why I liked pre-patch better than post patch is because it punished players who refused to learn the game. My point of view on that, then, is the following: If players played unrealistically, they should be stopped unrealistically.

[DatGD12guage]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

No, there was excessive contact at glancing angles before patch, period. Defenders could easily cut you off and any mild contact often tends to turn into a suction contact animation. Most of that would be fouls in real life. This has nothing to do with "not playing realistic", and the perimeter game was so excessively contact based that it masked the team defense issues for weeks. The issue here is that 2K may have overcompensated or not properly handled angles directly into the defender to produce contact animations. But the game should NOT be as contact heavy at the perimeter as it was with weak defenders. That's not realistic perimeter defense, at all. So please don't confuse my complaints about situations where there should be contact animations for wanting excessive and unrealistic contact back like it was pre-patch.

Man what are you talking about may have overcompensated?! THIS IS WHAT YOU ASKED FOR(you and your cosigning buddies). Why in the hell do you think 2k added those bumps in the first place? You think they WERE just there for no reason huh? Reality check, in the nba 9 times out of 10 when you have the ball you are going to get touched or CONTACT HEAVY.

Plus when you were guarded by weak defenders you get that blow by contact animation where the defender kind of rides you but you get past him so it was NOT over powered but you are not going to get past a weak defender EVERYTIME anyway thats real shh.


You suppose to be a veteran in here and you crying bc you cant get past the d bc they bumped you smh. Look up the definition of bump, its basically jostling and collisions and it happens FREQUENTLY in basketball between ball handler and the defender.

They should have put even more "bumping" in the game then maybe you will learn how to create space and take a jumpshot when you cant turbo in the paint all the time bc you think you should just bc you have a lebron.

Lets look at Lebron he does not even always drive when he has a smaller defender who can defend like a rondo, you know why? bc he's smart. You will still see him create space and shoot over them bc they are shorter, back them down to get closer in the paint or just call for a pick.


I keep saying YOU lack the offensive skills and your complaining is just ruining the game bc you are not paying attention to what you are doing. Just admit that this was a bad idea so we can get 2k to get the defense back up to par with the offense so we dont move backwards, got dam bruh!

[DatGD12guage]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

No, there was excessive contact at glancing angles before patch, period. Defenders could easily cut you off and any mild contact often tends to turn into a suction contact animation. Most of that would be fouls in real life. This has nothing to do with "not playing realistic", and the perimeter game was so excessively contact based that it masked the team defense issues for weeks. The issue here is that 2K may have overcompensated or not properly handled angles directly into the defender to produce contact animations. But the game should NOT be as contact heavy at the perimeter as it was with weak defenders. That's not realistic perimeter defense, at all. So please don't confuse my complaints about situations where there should be contact animations for wanting excessive and unrealistic contact back like it was pre-patch.

All im saying is bruh your argument should not be how many times you get bumped or contact on the perimeter or what you THINK should be a foul bc everybody always THiNK they get fouled being cute n stuff.

I think your argument should be more of the VARIETY of contact animations bc basketball is a 100% contact sport. You sound crazy complaining about collisions. Those are the physics at work my dude, what are yall doing?

[jeebs9]

Hey guys.... How do you think blocking fouls are programmed?

[ESRyder312]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

Hey guys.... How do you think blocking fouls are programmed?

I don't have a problem with them. I think there WAS a good balance between how many blocking fouls were called and how much contact there WAS. In past iterations if 2K, I thought there was a lack of fouls, so, I'm glad this is now a thing.

And DatGD12guage... So much win in those two posts. So much win.

[BegBy]

Quote: Originally Posted by DatGD12guage

Man what are you talking about may have overcompensated?! THIS IS WHAT YOU ASKED FOR(you and your cosigning buddies). Why in the hell do you think 2k added those bumps in the first place? You think they WERE just there for no reason huh? Reality check, in the nba 9 times out of 10 when you have the ball you are going to get touched or CONTACT HEAVY. Plus when you were guarded by weak defenders you get that blow by contact animation where the defender kind of rides you but you get past him so it was NOT over powered but you are not going to get past a weak defender EVERYTIME anyway thats real shh. You suppose to be a veteran in here and you crying bc you cant get past the d bc they bumped you smh. Look up the definition of bump, its basically jostling and collisions and it happens FREQUENTLY in basketball between ball handler and the defender. They should have put even more "bumping" in the game then maybe you will learn how to create space and take a jumpshot when you cant turbo in the paint all the time bc you think you should just bc you have a lebron. Lets look at Lebron he does not even always drive when he has a smaller defender who can defend like a rondo, you know why? bc he's smart. You will still see him create space and shoot over them bc they are shorter, back them down to get closer in the paint or just call for a pick. I keep saying YOU lack the offensive skills and your complaining is just ruining the game bc you are not paying attention to what you are doing. Just admit that this was a bad idea so we can get 2k to get the defense back up to par with the offense so we dont move backwards, got dam bruh!

For you, sir and also for every other person who comes on these forums and claims they want their physicality on the perimeter back. Watch it. Listen to the narrator. Read the rules. Watch it again. Reflect on your position in these arguments. Stop calling people out and saying that what YOU want is anything less than a bail-out because what YOU want is not NBA basketball. What YOU want is the game to do YOUR work for YOU with horrible animations and a level of physicality that rivals other sports. What YOU want is defenders to react at inhuman speeds or if YOU are controlling them they magically negate physics and ignore NBA rules so YOU can get the stop.

http://videorulebook.nba.com/archive...egal-position/

From that link you'll be able to read and see video proof (since unless you provide video proof for anything on these forums you'll be called out) of just about every single rule and infraction that can occur in the NBA.

The bottom line, as shown in the link above, is really quite simple. The physicality in the game is overdone and would more often than not be called a foul in the NBA. I'm sorry if that upsets people but those are quite literally the rules as determined by the NBA itself.

What compounds the issue in the 2k series is the lack of legit defense on a fundamental level and a mixture of arbitrary animations, exaggerated animations, near psychic reaction times of cpu defenders (note that cpu controlled ai is not as consistent or good as the cpu defenders), ignorance of real world physics and people actually believing that when they press buttons they lack the ability to be incorrect.

Defense is about teamwork. It's not about impossibly sticking to your guy like glue. It's about letting a guy have room to move all day in that direction because you know you have help and his options are limited. Not banging into him to prevent him from even using a screen 25 feet from the basket. It's about collectively making sound decisions and giving up certain shots. It's not about reacting to a person's movement at the exact instant it happens. It's about making some clutch stops and consistent sound play. It's not about shutting a guy down every trip down the court by magically getting in front of him without foul calls.

The NBA's best defenders still get beat all the time. The NBA's best defensive teams will still let in lots of points, because pace is also a huge factor in basketball. That is overlooked so much. I am surprised it's rarely mentioned.

I beg everyone to watch the last game between the Golden State Warriors and the LA Clippers. Golden State is regarded as a very sound defensive team with arguably a few of the leagues best on ball and team defenders. Green, Iggy, Thompson and Bogut are no slouches. Curry is also, in my opinion, a highly underrated on ball defender. The Clippers are also pretty decent defensively, although not quite at the Golden State level. Regardless of their defensive abilities both teams put up big points. The reason why is simple. NBA rules dictate that the offensive player(s) pretty much have the right of way. Pace is massive and a few made quick shots (because the offensive player wasn't being bounced around like a pinball) will make scores inflate dramatically.

Saying they should add more bumping and contact is (according to the NBA rules as shown above) is dead wrong. Inarguably, positively and absolutely wrong.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by DatGD12guage

Man what are you talking about may have overcompensated?! THIS IS WHAT YOU ASKED FOR(you and your cosigning buddies). Why in the hell do you think 2k added those bumps in the first place? You think they WERE just there for no reason huh? Reality check, in the nba 9 times out of 10 when you have the ball you are going to get touched or CONTACT HEAVY.

No one asked for zero contact when players are running directly into another. What was asked for was less contact at glancing angles from weak defenders. Thanks for speaking up for me however.

Quote:

You suppose to be a veteran in here and you crying bc you cant get past the d bc they bumped you smh. Look up the definition of bump, its basically jostling and collisions and it happens FREQUENTLY in basketball between ball handler and the defender.

The hell? I don't think I've ever met, spoken with, or played against you-- really strange for you to be speaking anything about me.

I can fare fine with the pre-patch defense, but I deem it less than realistic because I watch games on a daily basis and defense is not played by sucking and bumping by weak defenders on mild contact. It is played by successful rotations and schemes and heavy contact is only exhibited and gotten away with by certain elite defenders and teams. The Warriors who lead the league in defense last season wasn't even one of them.

It was so ovepowered that people didn't notice how bad the pick and roll defense, rotations, and general team defense was for weeks, because it would have been exposed with realistic modelling of perimeter penetration.

Quote:

I keep saying YOU lack the offensive skills and your complaining is just ruining the game bc you are not paying attention to what you are doing. Just admit that this was a bad idea so we can get 2k to get the defense back up to par with the offense so we dont move backwards, got dam bruh!

Seriously, the hell? Maybe think about making cogent basketball arguments without taking shots at people you neither know or know anything about?

I DIDN'T make the assumption that you can't play defense and are only complaining because you need the crutch of unrealistic bumping, so I'd appreciate if the favor was returned.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by DatGD12guage

All im saying is bruh your argument should not be how many times you get bumped or contact on the perimeter or what you THINK should be a foul bc everybody always THiNK they get fouled being cute n stuff. I think your argument should be more of the VARIETY of contact animations bc basketball is a 100% contact sport. You sound crazy complaining about collisions. Those are the physics at work my dude, what are yall doing?

I'm definitely for a greater variety of contact animations include more mild/glancing contact animations and hip-riding animations that don't simply suck your player in and stop movement.


As far as physics go, 2K seems to use a pretty simplified physics engine that selectively plays animations based on context and doesn't work well if those animations aren't there or aren't properly triggered.


As for fouls, many of those contact animations would be fouls if you watch any decent amount of modern basketball. Some players can get away with that physicality but it's certainly not ever player from 1-15. I mean when's the last time you saw a blocking foul in 2K16?

Quote: Originally Posted by BegBy

Defense is about teamwork. It's not about impossibly sticking to your guy like glue. It's about letting a guy have room to move all day in that direction because you know you have help and his options are limited. Not banging into him to prevent him from even using a screen 25 feet from the basket. It's about collectively making sound decisions and giving up certain shots. It's not about reacting to a person's movement at the exact instant it happens. It's about making some clutch stops and consistent sound play. It's not about shutting a guy down every trip down the court by magically getting in front of him without foul calls. Saying they should add more bumping and contact is (according to the NBA rules as shown above) is dead wrong. Inarguably, positively and absolutely wrong.

This. Modern NBA defenses rely on teamwork and schemes beyond just iso-handchecking.


It's also why I'm not sold on the approach 2K takes of nerfing CPU teammate defenders if you're not controlling them. They're in position to contest. They have their hands up. Why should they be treated as somewhat invisible just because I'm not switched on them, when they are in the proper defensive position for defending the man I funnelled to them?