Hyperbole in ratings...

[JKSportsGamer1984]

You can't just go strictly by stats to rate players smh. Stats don't account for degree of difficulty, defenders you're going up against, the pace of the game, etc... You have to also use the eye test.

[ThatMichiganFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by JKSportsGamer1984

You can't just go strictly by stats to rate players smh. Stats don't account for degree of difficulty, defenders you're going up against, the pace of the game, etc... You have to also use the eye test.

I agree. Stats do not mean everything, but the eye test agrees with me. Despite Okafors dominance on the offensive end of the court, he is below average in every other facet of the game. When he tries, he gets pushed around on the defensive end. And often he is just a bystander as someone drives into the lane for an easy bucket. Porzingis and Anthony-Towns also have their limitations, but despite being less polished overall than Okafor, they have a positive effect on more areas of the game. Both have more range than Okafor, and both are clearly better rebounders than Okafor. And both are lightyears ahead of Okafor defensively. Porzingis is skinny and can be bullied in the post, but he has quick feet and great instincts he uses to block shots and get steals. Anthony-Towns is very good defensively, and he uses his length and feet well. He also has good instincts, specifically at the rim, averaging 2.0 blocks per game.

I am not an NBA scout (nor do I claim to be) but Okafor reminds me of a more talented Greg Monroe. A player who is very good on offense, but his struggles on defense limit his overall effectiveness as a player. I think Okafor is more athletic than Monroe, and has a higher ceiling, but I also think that Monroe is a better rebounder. Monroe has worked on his footwork since the beginning of his NBA career, and he has improved defensively. He is still below average due to his slow foot speed, but his improved footwork and positioning have lead to improved defensive ability. Okafor can improve on the defensive side of the ball, but as of now, he is not a good defender.

[Swagger Jack]

Quote: Originally Posted by JKSportsGamer1984

You can't just go strictly by stats to rate players smh. Stats don't account for degree of difficulty, defenders you're going up against, the pace of the game, etc... You have to also use the eye test.

Exactly, the eye test is still undefeated...and I apologize if I presented this thread as a debate of sorts because it was not meant to be, in the case of Porzingis vs Dirk, anyone who thinks Porzingis is better from Mid-range than Dirk is simply doesn't know basketball, regardless of what the stat sheet sayss

Quote: Originally Posted by ThatMichiganFan

I agree. Stats do not mean everything, but the eye test agrees with me. Despite Okafors dominance on the offensive end of the court, he is below average in every other facet of the game. When he tries, he gets pushed around on the defensive end. And often he is just a bystander as someone drives into the lane for an easy bucket. Porzingis and Anthony-Towns also have their limitations, but despite being less polished overall than Okafor, they have a positive effect on more areas of the game. Both have more range than Okafor, and both are clearly better rebounders than Okafor. And both are lightyears ahead of Okafor defensively. Porzingis is skinny and can be bullied in the post, but he has quick feet and great instincts he uses to block shots and get steals. Anthony-Towns is very good defensively, and he uses his length and feet well. He also has good instincts, specifically at the rim, averaging 2.0 blocks per game. I am not an NBA scout (nor do I claim to be) but Okafor reminds me of a more talented Greg Monroe. A player who is very good on offense, but his struggles on defense limit his overall effectiveness as a player. I think Okafor is more athletic than Monroe, and has a higher ceiling, but I also think that Monroe is a better rebounder. Monroe has worked on his footwork since the beginning of his NBA career, and he has improved defensively. He is still below average due to his slow foot speed, but his improved footwork and positioning have lead to improved defensive ability. Okafor can improve on the defensive side of the ball, but as of now, he is not a good defender.

Well that's common sense and that's really just another case of people (again) not watching games and relying on old information, the facts are Jahlil Okafor is a much better defender and rebounder than any of us really anticipated, his blocks and rebounds (1.3 and 8.0 respectively) are much closer to Porzingis and Towns than we initially thought they would be (Porzingis having 2.0 and 8.1 and Towns having 2.0 and 9.1) Pair that with his obvious offensive supremacy you mentioned his range, again proving you don't actually watch the games (but again I don't blame you, who ACTUALLY watches Sixers games) but Okafor has actually flashed a nice little jumpshot that he can hit, that being another area that he's not as bad as people originally projected him to be...and again pair that with him being BY FAR superior on the offensive end, being on BY FAR the worst team, having BY FAR the least help, yet somehow some way still putting up the most points that is why he is the clear cut front-runner for the rookie of the year.

[Swagger Jack]

Quote: Originally Posted by HowDareI

Obviously I'm biased as a Sixers fan, but I don't see how Okafor isn't an 80 overall consistently. He's a better free throw shooter/mid to close range shooter than they said, he's not a bad rebounder, and when someone drives at him he's a good defender. We just played the Raptors, and in that game Derozan showed how good his mid range shot is. Even in the post he can hit fades with ease.

I'm also a Sixers fan. The Derozan thing? That's actually a joke I'm on the record that anyone that agrees with his mid-range ratings simply doesn't know or watch basketball...that's really all I have to say about that...as for the Porzingis rating, I think that's more hype and ESPN putback dunks etc...and you look at Okafor on the "lowly" Sixers and no one is paying him any attention, that is really the only way to explain that.

[Sleepy59]

Stauff Dislikes bulls. Drose is not a bad midrange shooter, which is stated in many articles. He can't hit 3's and gets blocked a bit more but how many clutch mids has he hit this year? How about all those bank shots? Bulls badges are BARELY touched. And cavs are overpowered its disgusting. I struggle more beating cavs than I do beating any all-star team. And ofc stauff is a cavs fan. Look at Drose's stamina (that of a center) now watch the recent 4 overtime bulls game. Look at droses minutes and listem to the commentators mention butler and rose being the least fatigued.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Agree with stats 95% dictating ratings. Disagree with the rating scale. I still liked it better years ago when very few players even had a 90 in any rating. Now being a 90 in midrange is common even with small sample sizes. Like why is Ilyasova an 88 in midrange because he's shooting 45% from there? He's assisted on all by 2 of his 17 makes from 16-23ft this year, but he's given a more than elite rating from there.

I know consistency is its own rating, but unless I'm wrong, that rating doesn't do much within games. Its more of a chronic rating to balance out stats over multiple games. Now, you can put Ilyasova in and have him bang in every midrange shot with any glimpse of space because he's given an elite rating

[Sleepy59]

How does drose have a 60 middy again?

http://i.imgur.com/JzlHKXa.jpg

[ThatMichiganFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Swagger Jack

Well that's common sense and that's really just another case of people (again) not watching games and relying on old information, the facts are Jahlil Okafor is a much better defender and rebounder than any of us really anticipated, his blocks and rebounds (1.3 and 8.0 respectively) are much closer to Porzingis and Towns than we initially thought they would be (Porzingis having 2.0 and 8.1 and Towns having 2.0 and 9.1) Pair that with his obvious offensive supremacy you mentioned his range, again proving you don't actually watch the games (but again I don't blame you, who ACTUALLY watches Sixers games) but Okafor has actually flashed a nice little jumpshot that he can hit, that being another area that he's not as bad as people originally projected him to be...and again pair that with him being BY FAR superior on the offensive end, being on BY FAR the worst team, having BY FAR the least help, yet somehow some way still putting up the most points that is why he is the clear cut front-runner for the rookie of the year.

Porzingis has three point range (despite only shooting 30% so far), and KAT has shown a good shooting touch from beyond the arc, shooting 10/23 (43%) although in a limited sample size. Okafor has not shown any three point shooting ability so far in his career.

Player 1

Spoiler

Karl Anthony-Towns

8-16 feet- 24/50 (48%)
16-24 feet- 44/86 (51.9%)

Player 2

Spoiler

Kristaps Porzingis

8-16 feet- 24/78 (30.8%)
16-24 feet- 28/54 (51.9%)

Player 3

Spoiler

Jahlil Okafor

8-16 feet- 35/110 (31.8%)
16-24 feet- 8/32 (25%)

Player 3 is obviously the worst shooter of the trio. He has taken the most shots from 8-24 feet, and shot the worst percentage. His jump shot is just not very good right now.

There is no arguing that the Sixers are worse than the T-Wolves or the Knicks, but it is easy for a talented player to put up good numbers on a bad team. Michael Carter-Williams did the same thing a few years ago when he won the Rookie of the Year award. Now he is getting benched for Jerryd Bayless in Milwaukee. I am not comparing MCW to Okafor (I think Okafor is a better NBA player than MCW), but they had similar situations, in the only competent player on an NBA team.

Okafor is superior on the offensive end, but not by as much as you might think. And he is such a liability on defense that makes him a net negative compared to Towns and Porzingis.