Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

[Gosens6]

Now, this thread isn't to gripe about socks, hairstyles, shoes , my Park, pro am, compression shorts in the my career store or any of that. This thread is to discuss spacing and Transition D; the two biggest game play related issues this year to me.

Too many times over the years in 2K, spacing has just been a complete mess. Players running into one another constantly, groups of players getting stuck in a giant huddle cause there's no room on the court. The pick and roll becoming almost useless because there's no space to operate, coupled with the AIs lightning quick hands to intercept any pass within a mile of them. The spacing is an issue.

It makes running plays difficult, no room to operate, get set up, it's just such a strain. The drive and kick game suffers from this, you're bound to run into 2+ defenders, most likely ending in a strip because there's no room to operate.

Now I don't know if the court is too small , the players are too big, or the movement is so messed up, it creates the illusion of there being no space on the court, but something has to change.

Now, with all the things that has improved defensively this year. Match ups, on ball D, blocking, and even rebounding have improved, but what the hell has happened to the transition D? Too many times I'm seeing the Cpu cherry pick down the court and complete a long bomb touchdown pass for am easy lay in. Where are my defenders? Who allowed him to get down there? This can sometimes decided games. It's being done at least 3-4 times a game by the ai, that's almost 8-10 free points, that's a huge swing.

I know there's a ton of other game play issues, but IMO these two need a ton of work. Instead of using this as a gripe thread, let's give some ideas on how they can improve these.

For spacing, look at nba live 10. Definitely not the best game, but it played a good game of basketball. Operating the half court offense felt fluid and satisfying. So much movement around the court, space to operate. I just don't feel that in 2K, it's just one big mess half the time, with a guard usually pulling up a contested shot from 6 feet out.

For transition D, there's no reason your team shouldn't be back in position after a made basket, and there's NO excuse for the ai to be able to complete these long, easy bombs every time they attempt it, it's seriously a magnet to the other cpu player.

Tone down the actuary and effectiveness of these long bombs like you do for human players, and it could really solve this issue. For you online guys, chime in on your issues when playing against other human players when it comes to spacing and Transition D.

What're you seeing? How can it be improved on?

[Man2ManD]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

In my opinion the court should be bigger and general player speed slowed down. It drives me crazy when a way open big inside the paint is about to receive a pass, but yet the wing defender or hell even the defender on the weak side, is able to turbo into the paint to contest/steal/block the attacker even before he has received the pass.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

Agree on transition D, not much to add there.

Spacing is a bit trickier

I remember Live 10 and how great spacing 'looked' To pull this off, they made the slow close out animations when you drove and kicked. What also helped with the spacing is how limited you were in taking angles.

This isn't the direction I want to go.

I think the player/ court dimensions are fine, but teammates need to be more aware of each other and get to open spaces. When I post up, the logic should be for the whole team should go into clear out mode and space properly. It'd also help if they cut down on some of the exaggerated off ball swim moves when contacting a player...I get the idea, but they need to be more subtle so guys don't end up in random spots...

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

They need it make it easier to steal these ridiculous passes that get thrown in traffic.

It's absolutely infuriating to watch someone throw a pass to their big man and watch your ai defender go for the steal and completely whiff on the pass, leaving them out of position and giving the offensive player a wide open dunk under the basket.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

Players don't actually play defence until a ballhandler enters an imaginary bubble around them. Its why you can turbo down to around midcourt and do a lead pass to a big man for an open dunk right off a made basket by the other team. The defenders are just standing idly in generic positions downcourt not paying any mind to the openness of players they aren't "supposed" to be guarding. Same reason why you can fastbreak on any possession even when you don't have numbers. Guys just run to and stand in generic spots on the floor and hope that deters you from blowing by them or passing the ball right above their heads

There needs to be active defending by players when offball. Not every team is god-like and denying entry passes and stopping offensive players, but I'd find it hilarious if there was an actual NBA player that would allow a half court pass to their man under the rim multiple times in a game. Or have someone throw an entry pass into traffic to a cutting offensive player. 2k tries to mitigate that last point by causing the passer to throw the ball towards defenders (i.e. think of those situations where a player will be cutting down an open lane and when you press pass, you throw the ball towards a defender that is completely away from the play, or the pass catcher starts backpeddling away from the ball as its coming to them in order for it to get stolen) instead of having defenders jump into passing lanes.

Defence needs an overhaul in this series big time imo

[mrchiggs]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

Def agree that this needs to be a priority, however the game Development time is too short for any of these fixes we require. Spacing and Transition D, at least for me, has been an issue for at least 6 years now 8 or 9 months isn't enough to really put out a new improved game. This is why the issues 2K have are more legacy issues. They continue to be passed down. Times too short like with these Assassins creed games. Maybe if there were two teams that worked in 2 year intervals; similar to the COD franchise... maybe it would work.

[JoFri]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

i've a different take on this.
transition d issue such as long bomb passes by cpu has toned down alot. from the games i played so far offline mL, if it happens then prob just 1 or 2 instances a game (definitely not 8-10 times). sometimes, it happens the other way too i.e. cpu opponent sucked into behind-basket area allowing my big man to score an easy 2. i hope to see this glitch resolved in 2k17.
it'll be good if the players can play to their tendencies and attributes. irl i saw melo seldom runs back on transition or if he ever did, slow run. hardworking players like andre roberson runs back all the time. i think tendencies like this ought to be added in the game to address how good the team fairs in transition d.

spacing - freelance triangle spacing issue has improved imo. i enjoyed playing it in 2k16 than 2k15. i'm sure other freelance offense spacing is good as well. running plays is a joy for me too as the ai makes me read the defense and adjust my gameplan to attack. the drive and kick works fine too. the thing is, the ai reads my tendency and ace will adjust. if the first possession i could drive past the defenser in a pnr play, the cpu will throw another defender in the next similar play, thats where kicking out comes to play.
the players huddling in the paint like u said definitely an issue and causing delays for the play to develop. i dont know how 2k can overcome this.
the stripping is an issue too. there're two threads on this already. can i add this to be top priority too?
my opinions and gameplay experience is on superstar sim sliders and auto on poe. u may not experience the same as i do base on these settings.

[23]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

Not blaming this but the player models still need work. They are scaled but are still too big, not thin enough like basketball players.

Im sure that accounts for a small percentage when you start adding 9 other players on the floor.

[jessiener]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

you from blowing by them or passing the ball right above their heads

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

The slow players are still too quick.

Also, players can cover too much ground with their animations. I can control Dirk and make him look like Anthony Davis when closing out on a 3 pointer by turbo blocking.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

2K16 at its worst. My jaw dropped when I saw this.



A touchdown pass from the baseline to inside of the 3 point line on the opposite end of the court, leading to an easy dunk. IDK even know where to begin. Westbrook catching an overhead pass with his back turned in traffic? 7 foot Patrick Ewing completely whiffing on that easy steal?

Passes like that should either be: A) Stolen or B) Fly out of bounds. It is utter insanity that a pass like that is able to made and result in an easy dunk. Complete insanity.

[coldkevin]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

2K16 at its worst. My jaw dropped when I saw this.



A touchdown pass from the baseline to inside of the 3 point line on the opposite end of the court, leading to an easy dunk. IDK even know where to begin. Westbrook catching an overhead pass with his back turned in traffic? 7 foot Patrick Ewing completely whiffing on that easy steal?

Passes like that should either be: A) Stolen or B) Fly out of bounds. It is utter insanity that a pass like that is able to made and result in an easy dunk. Complete insanity.

ridiculous and after 5 patches they haven't solved this obscenity, not to mention the ease with which you and cpu get in the post.

[Junior Moe]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

I think the court needs to be larger or the player models scaled down some; either or.

Also, I think speed differentiation and on ball D needs to be overhauled. I understand the balance they have to make for online and head to head games to keep players from just turboing by the defender. Bumping animations are necessary. Still, if I'm John Wall I should blow by Zach Randolph 10/10 even if he has good position. The help D should be there to help him, if not, I'll eat him up every time I get that matchup.

Finally, passing. It seems to me that passing is tethered to the receiver like Madden. If I pass to Brook Lopez at the elbow, I see an opening there. Why is he running out to the 3 point line? That needs to be changed.

I think those 3 things, for me, would open up spacing.

[SpeedyClaxton]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

Players still look big, take too much space on the court. Court size needs to be little bit wider and player models are bulky and too big, paint is always full and crowded. Transition D is it's own story, nonexistent, weak, at it's best very mediocre. 8/10 times touchdown passes are completed, receiver even gets small boost after getting the ball, meanwhile defenders are clueless and just standing there. Classic story of going 2 steps forward and 4 backwards..

[JoFri]

Re: Spacing and Transition D Have To Be Top Priority, Right?

I think the court needs to be larger or the player models scaled down some; either or.

Also, I think speed differentiation and on ball D needs to be overhauled. I understand the balance they have to make for online and head to head games to keep players from just turboing by the defender. Bumping animations are necessary. Still, if I'm John Wall I should blow by Zach Randolph 10/10 even if he has good position. The help D should be there to help him, if not, I'll eat him up every time I get that matchup.

Finally, passing. It seems to me that passing is tethered to the receiver like Madden. If I pass to Brook Lopez at the elbow, I see an opening there. Why is he running out to the 3 point line? That needs to be changed.

I think those 3 things, for me, would open up spacing.

had a few times my player stepped out and called for back court violations. would be good if this is tone down.

driving past zach using wall should be working fine. u mean its not? i saw a lot of help d after i drive past my defender.