Height/Speed/Playmaking/Shooting Caps need work moving forward

[ViolenceFight]

Quote: Originally Posted by phriscaul

one could clearly name more than 9 players, especially with the historic player base that they screwed with these same caps. They have Prime Malone and Prime Olajuwon slow as hell smh. Both players were relatively quick for any era. and they've managed to screw larry bird with each iteration of this damn game.

I think you missed my point. Even listing every generationAL player vs. The amount of players in the league at the time they existed isn't a huge percent. I was off in my calculations, but even at 28 teams X 12 players a team is 336. 9 players in a given league that are extraordinary once in a great while talents is a rate of about 2.5%

Taking the early 90s(90 to say 95), we have probably the largest rate of crazy talents. Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Wilkins, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kemp, Stockton, Malone, Rodman, Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley.

Those 16 names (And I'm probably missing a few, but the number isn't crazy skewed even with 4-5 extra), give us about 4.8% of the entire league.

That's not a huge margin. Even with the math I agree you should be able to make a guy like that. I just question taking that online. And, even some of those guys had major flaws. Magic was not a scorer, but he is crazy talented in otherareas. Bird was not super athletic(Larry's own quote is something along the lines of "I'm not real fast, and I'm not really strong, I beat them with fundamentals") but the man's IQ was through the roof. Shaq couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from the line. That was really the point I was trying to make. I mean we can go through every major Era and cone up with a relatively similar number.

[Breakstarter]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViolenceFight

I think you missed my point. Even listing every generationAL player vs. The amount of players in the league at the time they existed isn't a huge percent. I was off in my calculations, but even at 28 teams X 12 players a team is 336. 9 players in a given league that are extraordinary once in a great while talents is a rate of about 2.5% Taking the early 90s(90 to say 95), we have probably the largest rate of crazy talents. Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Wilkins, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kemp, Stockton, Malone, Rodman, Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley. Those 16 names (And I'm probably missing a few, but the number isn't crazy skewed even with 4-5 extra), give us about 4.8% of the entire league. That's not a huge margin. Even with the math I agree you should be able to make a guy like that. I just question taking that online. And, even some of those guys had major flaws. Magic was not a scorer, but he is crazy talented in otherareas. Bird was not super athletic(Larry's own quote is something along the lines of "I'm not real fast, and I'm not really strong, I beat them with fundamentals") but the man's IQ was through the roof. Shaq couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from the line. That was really the point I was trying to make. I mean we can go through every major Era and cone up with a relatively similar number.

But you failed to mention that this a star driven league. The league goes out of its way to showcase that talented "4.8%" of the league as much as possible. During Christmas, during the Allstars break during the playoffs, during the nba finals, and also in the summer olympics.
People don't spend their hard earned money to see 95 and half percent of the league, they go to see the marquee matchups. It's what sells. Kids don't grow idolizing Shaun Livingston, they grow up wanting to be like steph, kd, and Klay. In my childhood, I never heard anyone go 3,2,1 Hodges! Or 3,2,1 Bobbie Gibson! I can't speak for everyone, but in my opinion im drawn to the stars of the league and when I'm heavily invested in that star, then and only then will I follow the team he plays on. Great players usually make their teammates better out there on the court. But I'm not about to spend $65 dollars on a game and grind out for weeks on a videogame just to be:

Slower than stars that I watch
Shoot worse than the best shooters in the game
Not be able to have a high enough playmaking rating to do explosive crossovers like the best ball handlers

The positions in 2k16 were nerfed harshly and your seem to think that going online is the problem. The real problem is the people that don't put in enought time online to see what's the new strategy/cheese, get good at doing the new cheese moves or whatever so that when you do come across opponents who use these tactics, you know how to defend against it and come with a counter to said cheese moves instead of just crying that 2k is broken and that people should only have 99 my players offline. You gotta crawl before you walk. Learn and see what the exploits are online and learn how to beat them. Don't try and penalize the whole community because a few who dont want to handle aggressive online play. I thought that's what most online disclaimers were for?

My whole point is no one wants to build the 6th man, or role players online, we want what we see on tv. This is MYPLAYER. Putting a restraint on what we can do will only make it so that whatever the best possible height and position is, will wind up being what the entire 2k community winds up making. Whiich is doing exactly what you didn't want.....over saturate the onine community with those very same builds.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-guide-oc.html

[Lord Bonium]

Quote: Originally Posted by phriscaul

i dont think an athletic PG with a 90 3-ball is ridiculous at all actually. thats exactly where the game is heading. Westbrook will get more proficient from 3. Dame Lillard is exactly that. Brandon Knight is less athletic than those two but still athletic and can shoot the lights out. Athletic PGs that can knock it down are becoming more a reality.

^^ Dame is not that at all. He shoots 37% from 3, i'd give him an 82 3pt rating, and that's being generous while considering volume. Russell's not even close shooting 30%..., he should have a 65 or something, 70 at best.

Brandon Knight shoots 34%...

The point is that every player has at least one important weakness. In fact i can't think of a single player, regardless of position, who's both an elite athlete and shooter while being the primary ball handler. Pre injuries vince carter might be the closest shooting 41% in 01.

[Nine.Six.Melo]

2K will never get close to having a great system because then game is ultimately dominated by cheesers and exploiters.

No ball movement, no proper rotations on D, x spamming, it's not even fun at times.

[Yesh2kdone]

Quote: Originally Posted by Breakstarter

The positions in 2k16 were nerfed harshly and your seem to think that going online is the problem. The real problem is the people that don't put in enought time online to see what's the new strategy/cheese, get good at doing the new cheese moves or whatever so that when you do come across opponents who use these tactics, you know how to defend against it and come with a counter to said cheese moves instead of just crying that 2k is broken and that people should only have 99 my players offline. You gotta crawl before you walk. Learn and see what the exploits are online and learn how to beat them. Don't try and penalize the whole community because a few who dont want to handle aggressive online play. I thought that's what most online disclaimers were for?

The positions were nerfed because of 2k15 park cheese; 7ft SF's/7ft2 demi's doing behind the back side to side and chucking 3's. The whole point of video games is to have fun, and there is nothing worse than being in a game with 5 people you don't know, all doing exactly the same things till someone hits 21. It's boring as hell. There is nothing to learn and to call it strategy is laughably wide of the mark.

Doing the same thing over and over and over again is OCD not a video game. I really hate these player caps in my career, but I applaud 2k for trying to make park more balanced and fun to play. 2k16 park is definitely better than 2k15 park, so on that point, what 2k have done has proved successful.

If all these cheesers (of which I include you) are so good at the game and are all about the strategy, then why don't I ever see any of this? Why do I just see the same things as people on the other 7 courts are doing? It's not strategy it's autism.

Also dude, I'm sure he doesn't need me to fight his battles, but VF was amongst the top 5-10 park players in 2k15 based on w-l record (if I remember correctly), so I don't think crawling is necessarily his issue.

I find it baffling that you call this "aggressive online play", when it's just copying everyone else; so in your mind, we're all being protected from you dominant blacked-faced, hand support, cowboy hatted basketball behemoths, who would dominate everyone if only those game exploiting mechanics and 7ft2 PG's were left in the game.

OK dude.

[ViolenceFight]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yesh2k

The positions were nerfed because of 2k15 park cheese; 7ft SF's/7ft2 demi's doing behind the back side to side and chucking 3's. The whole point of video games is to have fun, and there is nothing worse than being in a game with 5 people you don't know, all doing exactly the same things till someone hits 21. It's boring as hell. There is nothing to learn and to call it strategy is laughably wide of the mark. Doing the same thing over and over and over again is OCD not a video game. I really hate these player caps in my career, but I applaud 2k for trying to make park more balanced and fun to play. 2k16 park is definitely better than 2k15 park, so on that point, what 2k have done has proved successful. If all these cheesers (of which I include you) are so good at the game and are all about the strategy, then why don't I ever see any of this? Why do I just see the same things as people on the other 7 courts are doing? It's not strategy it's autism. Also dude, I'm sure he doesn't need me to fight his battles, but VF was amongst the top 5-10 park players in 2k15 based on w-l record (if I remember correctly), so I don't think crawling is necessarily his issue. I find it baffling that you call this "aggressive online play", when it's just copying everyone else; so in your mind, we're all being protected from you dominant blacked-faced, hand support, cowboy hatted basketball behemoths, who would dominate everyone if only those game exploiting mechanics and 7ft2 PG's were left in the game. OK dude.

I apologize but The top 5 to 10 comment is not true. I work 50+ a week, so I can't Crack leaderboards vs. Guys who go run 100+ games a day in a private park. I appreciate the kind words though. Can't take a title I didn't earn...

[Yesh2kdone]

Quote: Originally Posted by ViolenceFight

I apologize but The top 5 to 10 comment is not true. I work 50+ a week, so I can't Crack leaderboards vs. Guys who go run 100+ games a day in a private park. I appreciate the kind words though. Can't take a title I didn't earn...

My mistake dude.

[ViolenceFight]

Quote: Originally Posted by Breakstarter

But you failed to mention that this a star driven league. The league goes out of its way to showcase that talented "4.8%" of the league as much as possible. During Christmas, during the Allstars break during the playoffs, during the nba finals, and also in the summer olympics. People don't spend their hard earned money to see 95 and half percent of the league, they go to see the marquee matchups. It's what sells. Kids don't grow idolizing Shaun Livingston, they grow up wanting to be like steph, kd, and Klay. In my childhood, I never heard anyone go 3,2,1 Hodges! Or 3,2,1 Bobbie Gibson! I can't speak for everyone, but in my opinion im drawn to the stars of the league and when I'm heavily invested in that star, then and only then will I follow the team he plays on. Great players usually make their teammates better out there on the court. But I'm not about to spend $65 dollars on a game and grind out for weeks on a videogame just to be: Slower than stars that I watch Shoot worse than the best shooters in the game Not be able to have a high enough playmaking rating to do explosive crossovers like the best ball handlers The positions in 2k16 were nerfed harshly and your seem to think that going online is the problem. The real problem is the people that don't put in enought time online to see what's the new strategy/cheese, get good at doing the new cheese moves or whatever so that when you do come across opponents who use these tactics, you know how to defend against it and come with a counter to said cheese moves instead of just crying that 2k is broken and that people should only have 99 my players offline. You gotta crawl before you walk. Learn and see what the exploits are online and learn how to beat them. Don't try and penalize the whole community because a few who dont want to handle aggressive online play. I thought that's what most online disclaimers were for? My whole point is no one wants to build the 6th man, or role players online, we want what we see on tv. This is MYPLAYER. Putting a restraint on what we can do will only make it so that whatever the best possible height and position is, will wind up being what the entire 2k community winds up making. Whiich is doing exactly what you didn't want.....over saturate the onine community with those very same builds. http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-guide-oc.html

You can still make star players man. That's what you're missing. You just can't be the best at every category. You act like being a star is being able to do everything better than everyone. In actuality it's what you do with what you have that makes a star.

LeBron is arguably the best all around player on the planet. He's a superstar, but not because he's the most talented. Hell, he's got a a super inconsistent shot from 15+ feet. But he makes the right decision and knows how to do what he needs to do at the right moment.

Without basketball IQ, LeBron is Javale McGee. Just another athletic dude who happens to play ball. Hell, without his IQ, Larry Bird is Chandler Parsons. A white dude with fundamentals and a jumper.

Do you see where I'm going with this? The criteria you're using to determine star quality is the wrong criteria. And that Meta stuff is absolute garbage. It exists so guys like myself can prove it's wrong. It's absolutely like Magic the Gathering, or even to a super watered down extent. It focuses so hard on what's top tier. It homogenizes gameplay so much, that a guy who plays well with an interesting build and playstyle that's outside of the meta can wreck squads because no one knows how to deal with it.

The most satisfying thing in the world is hearing the other guys microphones, as they are baffled as to how I've pulled 11 rebounds against the 95+ power forward they're running with my SG because of position, timing, and skill. As they don't understand why I blow by them with a dribble move, while they have to use every combination of size up and hop jumper to just take a contested 3.

If actual basketball was being played, I would care less. The difference is that kids think ISO ball is the only thing that's a measurement of skill so that's all they do.

All I've ever learned from a lot of your arguments sir, is that you have no idea how to quantify what makes a player good. The comment you constantly make about not wanting to be a role player despite the fact that NO MYPLAYER EVEN COMES CLOSE TO A ROLE PLAYER AS FAR AS ATTRIBUTES GO proves this. You're still going to hit 99. You're still going to be better than 95% of the league if you choose to be. If you can't do that with the current caps or you don't feel that you can, you might want to re evaluate what you're doing on the court and how you're doing it, because it sounds like what's hindering you and creating this argument is not on the game side of things

Oh, and one last note. I can deal with every cheesy thing kids do. The demigods were BS, but beatable. I play from pattern recognition and read and anticipation on defense. I'm not sure where I stand against most guys on the park, but I have yet to meet a guy, cheeseball, meta player, etc. That I flat out thought: "This is unbeatable from a skill aspect".

But you can't argue that having to warp an entire game to deal with cheesy garbage is right. Magic flat out BANS cards if they warp a format too much. If they run a grand prix, and 40% or more of the decks are the same or rely on one strategy they take it away. They don't do it because the community whines that it's unfair (usually they don't), They take it away because it creates a cancerous format that is boring because everything is the same.