NBA2K17 - Fatigue system

[Pokes404]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

The Legend with the cameo appearance, lol. By coincidence, I just watched a TBT YouTube video showing NBA Elite 11. I remember how they attempted to remove the turbo then. IIRC, it didn't feel that bad not being able to use the turbo button. I feel it could work, and it could make the game more realistic. It would force players to move the LS with more purpose. For those of us who walk up the ball, we're already familiar to the concept of analog movements on the left stick. The trick would be finding that sweet spot for a reasonable speed when the stick is fully pushed. Personally, I would go with a 1-2 second speed burst (in the half court) if the user 100% fully extends the stick. This would setup a perfect situation for a size up move then launching with LS. As for fastbreaks, a user could click on LS to give them a 3-7 second speed boost to run and complete the break. Limiting the availability of sprint/turbo could help widening the gap between skilled and unskilled players. That's just my two cents.

I don't want to have to guess whether the game thinks I'm in a fastbreak or halfcourt situation so I can figure out how much sprint I'm going to have when I press the stick all the way in one direction. How about just punishing people more for holding down sprint all the time with tired players, decreased maneuverability, and increased chances at turnovers? Seems much simpler to me.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pokes404

I don't want to have to guess whether the game thinks I'm in a fastbreak or halfcourt situation so I can figure out how much sprint I'm going to have when I press the stick all the way in one direction. How about just punishing people more for holding down sprint all the time with tired players, decreased maneuverability, and increased chances at turnovers? Seems much simpler to me.

Yeah, but then all the user have to do is call some timeouts, and viola...rested players (in PNO mode anyways). As a result, players have an infinite amount of turbo no matter the game mode. My idea at least forces players to be more "aware" of their turbo use and takes away the ability of just pulling and holding RT as soon they get the ball. Although, I could see someone just as easily always clicking the LS for the sprint (ala COD), because unskilled players feel the need to use turbo in every situation.

But it's only an idea. I highly doubt they'll ever remove the turbo trigger.

[Pokes404]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

Yeah, but then all the user have to do is call some timeouts, and viola...rested players (in PNO mode anyways). As a result, players have an infinite amount of turbo no matter the game mode. My idea at least forces players to be more "aware" of their turbo use and takes away the ability of just pulling and holding RT as soon they get the ball. Although, I could see someone just as easily always clicking the LS for the sprint (ala COD), because unskilled players feel the need to use turbo in every situation. But it's only an idea. I highly doubt they'll ever remove the turbo trigger.

I do have issue with the stamina recovery. I think once a player has played so many minutes in a game, their stamina should start to take a permanent hit. So yes, you can call 4 timeouts in a row. But Lebron's stamina isn't going to recover anything past 70% because you've played him too many minutes already.

I think putting a stamina limit on players, based on the percentage of minutes played and the amount of stamina drained during those minutes, would make people think about their rotations (and laying off R2 as well). You can leave Lebron in for now, but he might not have anything left in the 4th quarter. And no, you're not going to be able to call a bunch of TOs in a row and bail yourself out of poor substitution management. Meanwhile your opponent, who's been rotating his guys, is going to have a fresh lineup for that 4th quarter. This would be a fun element to bring into the game. But like you said, it isn't present right now because all you have to do is call a couple timeouts and everybody is fully recovered.

[stillfeelme]

Fatigue summarized by impressions

Popular Science

http://www.popsci.com/nba-2k17-impro...-gaming#page-2

Quote:

The biggest change comes in the form of a mix of reality and gaming. In the previous 2K games, when your player would be low on energy, his attributes would suffer and he would have to be subbed out of the game. If you watch basketball, you know that this isn’t how professional athletes work. Yes, they need rest, but they often play just as well in the closing minutes of the game as they do at the beginning. To replicate this, NBA 2K17 strayed away from a long-term energy tank and refocused on short term maximum energy use. What this means is that you can no longer sprint constantly, just like an NBA player doesn’t sprint the length of the court five times in a row. This prevents players from riding the turbo button, making you use your energy more wisely.

• I will just summarize as this sounds like they didn't just do a attribute drop across the board with fatigue. This also sounds like it takes a while for sprint to replenish the longer you use it. The actual sprint tank is changed

IGN


http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/08/...asketball-game

Quote:

Blumberg gave us a quick update on some gameplay changes. The development team wanted to put more control in the hands of the user and rely less on probability from stats. They also revamped the fatigue system. In previous 2K games, you could play your starting roster for the majority of the game and play for 48 minutes straight without it affecting your players. Now, your digital athletes will start missing shots, be slower to react, and more susceptible to injuries if you keep them in too long. Ultimately, you’ll have to get your bench players into the game and rest the starters if you want to win simulation games.

• Basically that fatigue will affect reaction times most likely rotations awareness and injuries but it could also mean control not sure here. They could either slow your input to controller for players you are controlling which I think is possible but also slow your CPU teammates

Polygon


http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/22/125...on-impressions

Quote:

Of course, plenty of players just try to sprint up and down the court and run circles around defenders; the Warriors, with their propensity for pull-up jump shots in transition, quick screens and great ball movement, are the perfect video game team in this respect. Visual Concepts is revamping its fatigue system for NBA 2K17 in an effort to address this issue in a more realistic way. Jones explained that real athletes play at full tilt when they need to, and when they’re jogging, it’s so they can recover their stamina. That "doesn’t mean that [playing is] drawing so much from them that their attributes drop," he said, noting that that’s how NBA 2K managed fatigue until now. The new system in NBA 2K17 is designed to penalize people who lay on the sprint button all the time, because that’s simply not a realistic way to play basketball; you’ll have to bring in backups from time to time so your starters can catch a breather.

• I think he literally just said you will not be able to just hold sprint all the time. To me he is sort of saying what was sad in the Pop Sci article.

They probably could do a Dev Blog on the fatigue alone

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Quote: Originally Posted by CaseIH

Not a online player, but have to say this is a very good idea for online players if they could implement it in some way. No matter what there will always be online babies cryin about something. Your idea is one of the best Ive ever seen for those that play online, because as whole it seems onliners tend to play with the superstar teams, rather than actually play with the team they actually root for, although nowdays there are a ton of bandwagon fans that root for the superstar teams, lets be honest how many outside of the GS area actually were fans of that team until a few years ago. Not that Im knocking the Warriors, Ive been a fan of Curry since his college days and I always like Marc Jackson and Steve Kerr.

I don't see a problem with not picking the team you root in a game. I'm a Steelers fan and I rarely pick them in online Madden because I like to use all the teams. Plus how you would you know what any random users favorite team was if they didn't tell you?

[CaseIH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Black Bruce Wayne

I don't see a problem with not picking the team you root in a game. I'm a Steelers fan and I rarely pick them in online Madden because I like to use all the teams. Plus how you would you know what any random users favorite team was if they didn't tell you?

Didnt mean it was a issue, if I Played online I might on occasion play with the Spurs who I enjoy watchin IRL play and their coach being from Indiana, although I probably only do that if someone picked the Pacers,lol. I think you should play with who ever you want, but those who just hop on the bandwagon of a team because of how good they are annoys me, IRL, because once they suck again they go to a different team. So if I played online, which I dont, I would get tired of always having to play the same team or the same couple teams all the time, especially when they are picking them just because that team or teams is so good. Especially if your playing someone that you can tell has very little knowledge yet they are able to hang with you or beat you.

Thats why I think the OP was right in a fatigue carry over system, so thse types get some penalty, just as you would IRL by playing back2 back or a stretch of 3 games in 4 days. Dont know if the devs could individualize something like this to each online player, but the OP has a great idea on how to negate those fools. If your one of those online players that has a high basketball IQ and rest guys, and dont abuse turbo/sprint and just play with your favorite team, then you should still be capable of playing thru the fatigue against a idiot opponent. Again this might be impossible to make happen, but if the devs could implement this, it might help with stopping the moronic fools online, Im sure they will still whine and cry cant please some of these kids, but atleast the higher basketball IQ guys would be happy.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by stillfeelme

Fatigue summarized by impressions Popular Science http://www.popsci.com/nba-2k17-impro...-gaming#page-2 I will just summarize as this sounds like they didn't just do a attribute drop across the board with fatigue. This also sounds like it takes a while for sprint to replenish the longer you use it. The actual sprint tank is changed IGN http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/08/...asketball-game Basically that fatigue will affect reaction times most likely rotations awareness and injuries but it could also mean control not sure here. They could either slow your input to controller for players you are controlling which I think is possible but also slow your CPU teammates Polygon http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/22/125...on-impressions I think he literally just said you will not be able to just hold sprint all the time. To me he is sort of saying what was sad in the Pop Sci article. They probably could do a Dev Blog on the fatigue alone

Thanks. I must have misread it the first time. I actually like this idea better. It's a different way of limiting the availability of the turbo/sprint. My idea was timed, but I like the fact they're going to make it where you have to "recharge" your turbo. Depending on how they do it, you could get 2-3 possessions where your opponent is unable to make use of their turbo. That could be a game changing moment depending on the situation.

[harryl]

To me, it sounds like they're actually going to nerf Turbo a bit by actually penalizing excessive use of Turbo.

Currently, the only disincentive to using Turbo is in how it creates inertia that reduces how snappily one can change directions. There is also a general increase in the decrease of Energy during the course of a game, but we all know that there are exploits to this*.

But, otherwise, one can Turbo constantly, limited only really in the need to wait for Turbo capacity to replenish.

Now, it sounds like, when you Turbo, there will be a short-term hit to base Ratings to reflect extra momentary fatigue from extra hard increases in effort. So, now, when you Turbo up the court, maybe your player's base Ratings decrease by 5%. And maybe there is some mechanic by which this is cumulative with every use of Turbo within whatever the interval is for this short-term hit to fade away.

I think there was also some statement made whereby they are looking at the ability of players to perform at peak levels for critical plays at the end of the game, even though they may have played a lot of minutes. If not done correctly, this could really undermine the effect that fatigue should have on the game, but if done right, it really does mimic the ability of a player to play 40 minutes and, in crunch time, buckle down and play at their best.

* Everyone knows that judicious timing of Time Outs, along with Quarter and Halftime breaks, can allow one to play one's starting lineup for the entire game, or close to that, with no, or minimal, performance hit. What can have an even more profound affect is the Energy buffing that comes with the Posterizer and Eraser badges. If you have two or three guys with one of those badges getting blocks or posterizing opponents, one doesn't even need to call time-outs to replenish Energy.