How Do You Use Advanced Rotations?

[Po Pimp]

Are the advanced rotations strictly relegated to franchise modes? What about someone like me who likes to play exhibition games and hates that my starters start in second quarter, then get subbed out with 2 min left in the second quarter?

[miamikb2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by djgenius

i cant make threads since im new, so im asking here...why isnt there a coach mode in 2k17?? there is simulcast live, but that doesnt show the actual game, just faces moving up and down the court...PLEASE bring back coach mode!

The workaround from last year no longer works?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joosegoose]

So I finally got to take a look at this feature, and either I'm horribly misunderstanding it or I'm very disappointed.

Spoiler

You can see here, I set minutes allocations. They add up and create valid lineups. But then I went into the 'advanced' rotation to do some find tuning, maybe stagger the rotations a little...

Spoiler

What?! These aren't my numbers, starters' minutes are too heavy (except for Chandler who had his minutes dropped). Sure enough, the only way to get these minutes to match is to set your lineups using advanced rotations in the first place, making the minutes allocation screen pointless. There isn't even a way to check what you set in the minutes allocation screen from the advanced rotation screen...you have to completely discard your changes to see the previous screen.

So what does this mean? Advanced rotations are MANDATORY if you ever want your simmed minutes to match played minutes. And since I'm pretty sure the AI can't use this advanced rotations screen, I doubt their played minutes will ever match what their coach is setting in his gameplan.

I don't play all 82 games in a season like some folks do, and I don't know if I want to sink a bunch of time into building up advanced rotations pretty much from scratch every time an injury pops up or I want to make a lineup change. So it looks like I might be just rolling with the awful mass subs system that we've all come to know and...err, live with.

I really hope that I'm a complete idiot and just overlooking something...

[smuhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by dwayne12345

It's quite easy ya'll. 1. Go to the the minute where you want Dragan to be a SF instead of C 2. Press 'triangle' on PS4 (I think Y on Xbox) to go to the Left Panel 3. On the left panel press x (or A on xbox) to highlight the SF at that minute. 4. Then go down and highlight Dragan Bender. Dragan will now be SF for that minute and your SF will now be C. 5. Continue this for each minute where you want your guy to play out of position.

Dude, can you make a video tutorial please? This is really getting frustrating. This shouldn't be this hard. I don't understand why 2K can't ever explain anything.

2K added a new feature, now show us how it works. Everything is so secretive when it shouldn't be. Learning some things are fine. But something like this should be in the manual.

[Mikelopedia]

Quote: Originally Posted by joosegoose

So I finally got to take a look at this feature, and either I'm horribly misunderstanding it or I'm very disappointed. Spoiler You can see here, I set minutes allocations. They add up and create valid lineups. But then I went into the 'advanced' rotation to do some find tuning, maybe stagger the rotations a little... Spoiler What?! These aren't my numbers, starters' minutes are too heavy (except for Chandler who had his minutes dropped). Sure enough, the only way to get these minutes to match is to set your lineups using advanced rotations in the first place, making the minutes allocation screen pointless. There isn't even a way to check what you set in the minutes allocation screen from the advanced rotation screen...you have to completely discard your changes to see the previous screen. So what does this mean? Advanced rotations are MANDATORY if you ever want your simmed minutes to match played minutes. And since I'm pretty sure the AI can't use this advanced rotations screen, I doubt their played minutes will ever match what their coach is setting in his gameplan. I don't play all 82 games in a season like some folks do, and I don't know if I want to sink a bunch of time into building up advanced rotations pretty much from scratch every time an injury pops up or I want to make a lineup change. So it looks like I might be just rolling with the awful mass subs system that we've all come to know and...err, live with. I really hope that I'm a complete idiot and just overlooking something...

It's not so much that youre missing something, but just realize that when you allocate minutes through the basic rotation screen, you're leaving it up to the CPU to figure out how to divide up those minutes amongst the 5 positions. And more than likely, there are gonna be situations that don't add up, thus leading to the altered minutes you see in the timeline. Also, the bug that's existed in the rotation logic for YEARS contributes to this, where even if you assign a starter 18 minutes, he's probably going to end up playing 29 because starters play the whole 4th.



This is how I do it:
-On the normal rotations screen, don't worry about minutes, just pick your five starters and active bench. Now what I suggest is put the first 5 bench players in order of PG, SG, SF, PF, C, mirroring the order of the starters.

-Now go to the timeline. Press L3 and clear all data. Start from scratch assigning minutes.

-Address your starters first. Assign their minutes and when you want them taking their breaks.

-Any holes in the PG line, fill it with the backup PG. Repeat this for all 5 positions, even if it leads to certain bench players having more minutes than you want them to.

-Now just taketh and giveth amongst your bench guys. Work stretch by stretch. Say your backup center was assigned 24 minutes (cause your starter was only assigned 24) but he sucks and you want him playing less. You also have a backup PF who plays the 5. Cut 6 min away and give those 6 to the PF. That's what I mean by working stretch by stretch. When you take something from someone, assign it to someone else before moving on. It's easier to stay organized that way. Don't worry about positions being correct yet other than just making sure you have the right combos playing together according to your preference.

-Once you are satisfied with pairings and minutes, check positions. You pretty much go through minute by minute. Once you see something off (like the PF and C should be flipped) highlight the minute, press triangle, select the PF then C, then triangle again. Keep in mind it'll only cover the stretch until the next sub. So if you have subs every minute, you might have to repeat that process 4 times in a 5 minute stretch if that PF and C are on the floor together.


Try not to get frustrated guys, I'll admit even I was a little overwhelmed for a minute and I've wanted this feature for years and am a coach IRL. You'll get used to it and develop a rythym.

I hope they can add this feature to other modes. What I love about this is 2k is saying, we can't figure out how to correct the issue with the substitution logic that forces starters to basically play the whole 4th, so here adjust it yourself. Which is great! And you can see in the default times all the issues we've complained about for years: essentially a 5 for 5 sub in the 1st, and the 4th quarter problem I just described.

Another really cool aspect is you aren't limited by secondary positions. If you wanna play 4 PG's together, have at it!


My only issue so far is this, the AI will not deviate from your timeline no matter what. Doesn't matter if your center picks up 5 fouls in the 1st or if youre winning by 55 in the 4th. Same goes for simmed games. This is a big problem for 30 team MyLeagues.

Other than that, this is my favorite new feature in 2k.

[pazpay2k28]

Don't waste your time on this. Cause I did and the results aren't what you expect. In theory you can set up specific formations for specific times. In the game however you might find yourself with your 2nd team in the dying seconds of the 4th quarter, because reasons.

But it's great that new features are added every year. Even if they aren't working, but whatever.

[joosegoose]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mikelopedia

It's not so much that youre missing something, but just realize that when you allocate minutes through the basic rotation screen, you're leaving it up to the CPU to figure out how to divide up those minutes amongst the 5 positions. And more than likely, there are gonna be situations that don't add up, thus leading to the altered minutes you see in the timeline. Also, the bug that's existed in the rotation logic for YEARS contributes to this, where even if you assign a starter 18 minutes, he's probably going to end up playing 29 because starters play the whole 4th. This is how I do it: -On the normal rotations screen, don't worry about minutes, just pick your five starters and active bench. Now what I suggest is put the first 5 bench players in order of PG, SG, SF, PF, C, mirroring the order of the starters. -Now go to the timeline. Press L3 and clear all data. Start from scratch assigning minutes. -Address your starters first. Assign their minutes and when you want them taking their breaks. -Any holes in the PG line, fill it with the backup PG. Repeat this for all 5 positions, even if it leads to certain bench players having more minutes than you want them to. -Now just taketh and giveth amongst your bench guys. Work stretch by stretch. Say your backup center was assigned 24 minutes (cause your starter was only assigned 24) but he sucks and you want him playing less. You also have a backup PF who plays the 5. Cut 6 min away and give those 6 to the PF. That's what I mean by working stretch by stretch. When you take something from someone, assign it to someone else before moving on. It's easier to stay organized that way. Don't worry about positions being correct yet other than just making sure you have the right combos playing together according to your preference. -Once you are satisfied with pairings and minutes, check positions. You pretty much go through minute by minute. Once you see something off (like the PF and C should be flipped) highlight the minute, press triangle, select the PF then C, then triangle again. Keep in mind it'll only cover the stretch until the next sub. So if you have subs every minute, you might have to repeat that process 4 times in a 5 minute stretch if that PF and C are on the floor together. Try not to get frustrated guys, I'll admit even I was a little overwhelmed for a minute and I've wanted this feature for years and am a coach IRL. You'll get used to it and develop a rythym. I hope they can add this feature to other modes. What I love about this is 2k is saying, we can't figure out how to correct the issue with the substitution logic that forces starters to basically play the whole 4th, so here adjust it yourself. Which is great! And you can see in the default times all the issues we've complained about for years: essentially a 5 for 5 sub in the 1st, and the 4th quarter problem I just described. Another really cool aspect is you aren't limited by secondary positions. If you wanna play 4 PG's together, have at it! My only issue so far is this, the AI will not deviate from your timeline no matter what. Doesn't matter if your center picks up 5 fouls in the 1st or if youre winning by 55 in the 4th. Same goes for simmed games. This is a big problem for 30 team MyLeagues. Other than that, this is my favorite new feature in 2k.

I appreciate the reply, in detail. I get that the basic minutes screen leaves exact distribution up to the AI, but I'm fine with that. At least I would be if the logic had been worked on at all coming into 2k17.

You see, even in valid lineups that perfectly line up (to be extreme, 5 starters playing 28 minutes each and 5 bench players with 20) the cpu will do it's own thing and assign minutes goofy, not to mention bringing players in/out at points of the game where real NBA teams never do. The result is, as you detailed, you need to go through and essentially build your entire rotation, all 240 minutes of it, from scratch...otherwise you won't get a rotation that makes any sense.

It's a lot of work and time, especially if you adjust for every game or even just for every injury/transaction/recovery. And if you don't mess with the timeline, simmed minutes and played minutes won't match up at all. As I noted, the AI doesn't have access to the timeline, so unless you do 30 team control and set a timeline for every team (I legitimately don't want to know how much time this would take for even just one season) other teams will have the same issue. And never mind if you're playing MyGM and only have access to one team in the first place...

I just don't understand why it's so difficult to assign the proper number of minutes to players, has been for years. I get that leaving it up to the cpu isn't always going to get the lineup on the floor you had in mind, at the times you had in mind. I was okay with that and looking forward to making my tweaks with this new menu. But to not even touch rotation logic...you wind up having to build your own rotations completely from scratch every time or keep running with the same old crap.

It's kind of like if you had a franchise with absolutely broken trade logic, draft logic, contract logic, etc, and instead of doing anything about it you simply threw 30 team control in as an option. It's great to have as an option but that's an awful lot of work required at a minimum to make things passable. Not to mention it would mean single-team modes (MyGM) would be downright awful.

This might just be a difference of opinion--you said: "What I love about this is 2k is saying, we can't figure out how to correct the issue with the substitution logic that forces starters to basically play the whole 4th, so here adjust it yourself." Where, on my end, I hate that they did that. I do love that the option is there (just like I love options and control in general, it's why I don't play MyGM), but I firmly disagree that it's a substitute for fixing the underlying logic.

Personally, I'm willing to figure out how many players to put in my rotation, assign them minutes, make sure everything's valid (appropriate players at all positions for all minutes, make sure a player playing only 10% of his minutes at one position isn't starting there), and then maybe do some fine tuning to the timeline (maybe stagger the lineups a little differently, end the game with a specific group, etc). If I have to do more than that, like build the entire thing from scratch, it quickly becomes not worth it to do at all unless I'm playing every game in the season and moving along at a slow pace. And I can't be the only one who shares this sentiment, as I'm sure there are hordes of casual players who don't wish to do as deep into MyLeague as even guys like me do.

Sorry if this seemed like a rant! I was just really hyped for better rotation logic this year and more disappointed than I should have been when I found out it's unchanged. It would be like expecting totally overhauled draft logic when the reality was that we could make all the picks for each team ourselves. It's obviously great to have the option, but it would stink to have to pick between that and drafts where Ben Simmons falls out of the lottery or something.

I do love the feature, and if I have one wish for it it's this: that the initially generated timeline could at least carry over the proper minutes from the allocation screen. I would gladly make edits to my rotations if I didn't have to always build them from scratch. Not having starters play the entire 4th by default would be nice too...

[BigT34]

I'm very excited for this feature, but for the life of me I could not figure out how to use it properly. I had the same problem as the OP.

It's remarkably not intuitive. I'm fine with 2K pushing the envelope and sticking things in that are a bit goofy and hard to figure out, but there needs to be some kind of online manual or guidance. It's incredibly frustrating to spend 15-20 minutes and not be able to make such a cool feature work.

The complexity that's being added to the game is great, amazing, and so worthwhile, but it's making the learning curve steeper and we need some guidance on how to use these features.