Physicality is hurting running plays (with video evidence)

[MoodMuzik]

Quote: Originally Posted by BegBy

If you look up the definition of outlandish and broken and then compare the literal definition to your usage of outlandish and your misinterpretation of broken you'll see that one is wrong, and one is very accurate. Edit - For the record I didn't use the word broken except this post which was quite obviously necessary.

Are you sure it's me that's misinterpreting a statement, or is it you that's clearly interpreting my statement incorrectly?

You know what I'm saying, so why all the nonsense?

For every video game mishap, I have a Shaqtin' A Fool you can watch. Now, should 2K limit the amount of crap that occurs? Absolutely. But to say "it's not realistic", is inaccurate.

I'm not trying to be a pain in the a**. I'm just sick of seeing a message board full of primarily grievances, which to people who go through the trouble to create an account and post a grievance seems like it is a clear representation of a "broken game". In which case it is not.

Is the physicality hurting the plays like you said? Yes. It should be utilized in other ways.

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by de_jesus

You are so full of absolute ****. That's not at all what you were getting to in your original post. You were saying that the idea that someone would body up Reddick the way Fournier was in the video was unrealistic because that's exactly what the post you responded to (mine) was discussing. Don't move the goalposts. The following play shows a real life example of a player being bodied up and breaking free on a defensive breakdown. Also fixed link: http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...s-defense.nba/

I'm really glad you posted this clip, because it is a perfect example of how 2k doesn't do a good job with this situation.

In the clip you posted, yes there is a lot of physicality and bodying up. The difference is that once Curry stopped Kyrie from getting to the spot he wanted to get to, Kyrie adjusted and did something else.

The play starts at 0:27 into the video. The initial contact between Curry and Kyrie starts at 0:28. By 0:30, Kyrie has already made a move to get around Curry and move to plan B. At 0:31, there's more contact. By 0:33, Kyrie has again changed directions and moved to plan C. At 0:34, he starts moving again to get to his next spot. Video is paused from 0:35-0:50. 0:51-0:54 is the time it took Kyrie to get from under the basket to behind the three point line.

All of that happened in a span of 10 seconds. There was constant effort to get around the defender and make something happen. If Curry impeded his progress, he adjusted and went to the next motion.

Now let's break down the clip Smirkin Dirk posted. He calls the play at 0:02, on his way up the court, and gets to the spot to start it at 0:05. The play itself doesn't even start until everyone else gets to their spots at 0:11. That's red flag #1. Players should be getting to their spots as soon as the play is called, and it shouldn't take 6 seconds to do so even if they wait until the PG gets to his. The next part of the play is designed for Redick to run along the baseline, get an off-ball screen, and run to the elbow. He starts to make his move at 0:12, sort of. He does a couple of excessive back and forth movements, which more or less wastes time. He finally starts trying to run at 0:15. So we're already at 10 seconds just to get plan A to start. At 0:16, Redick gets bodied up by Fournier. He continues to just walk and push against him, without trying to make a move to get around him until 0:18, when he finally makes the cut toward the elbow. If the video wasn't paused, he would have reached his spot at 0:19. So it took 15 seconds (0:05-0:19) to run a simple off-ball screen play with 0 adjustments or branches.

So how is that realistic?

[Smirkin Dirk]

Well said. I want to make it clear Im not upset about not popping my guy open. It would suck if I could get him open every time. But it should not take him 14 seconds to make a simple cut.

If he cant shake his defender he'll get the ball and I cna move into a pnr or a handoff or back to Paul. But so often the physicality (which is a great addition) is impacting the ability to run plays.

If you think Im full of ****, watch off ball for 10 possessions. You'll see your guys get bumped (no issue with this) but they will get sucked into this weird animations and running a simple play may take 10 seconds.

[Kese86]

The issue to me isn't the physicality, which in my opinion the CPU is so much better at at than the user in stopping or executing floppy or off-ball screen plays. The problem is that the user ai offense runs no counters to the holding or ball denial. There should be more backdoors or reversing by the shooters trying to come off the down screens or the screeners should flash high for a pressure outlet. Instead the offense just bogs down until it's ran by the book.

[HypoLuxa13]

I find the Offensive 3 second calls more infuriating than the off-ball player taking forever to get open. If he can't get open, fine, I'll abandon the play and run a quick pick and roll or post up or isolation. But when he can't get open and gets held in the paint causing a turnover about 3 times a game, that annoys me.

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kese86

The issue to me isn't the physicality, which in my opinion the CPU is so much better at at than the user in stopping or executing floppy or off-ball screen plays. The problem is that the user ai offense runs no counters to the holding or ball denial. There should be more backdoors or reversing by the shooters trying to come off the down screens or the screeners should flash high for a pressure outlet. Instead the offense just bogs down until it's ran by the book.

I'm not exactly sure. But I think that's something they'll be able to add in later

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Maybe it can be fixed if they add in other options for that situation? What if he's denied, the ai recognizes it and they go into another option that flips the side he runs off of. (Denied left, run right. Denied while walking down, down screen and run up) That seems like something they'd be able to add similar to what they did with transition decisions today [9-28]. I'd be okay with the defense stopping my players from getting to a spot if my players could then counter quick enough so that my offense isn't mad stagnant

[de_jesus]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

I'm really glad you posted this clip, because it is a perfect example of how 2k doesn't do a good job with this situation. In the clip you posted, yes there is a lot of physicality and bodying up. The difference is that once Curry stopped Kyrie from getting to the spot he wanted to get to, Kyrie adjusted and did something else. The play starts at 0:27 into the video. The initial contact between Curry and Kyrie starts at 0:28. By 0:30, Kyrie has already made a move to get around Curry and move to plan B. At 0:31, there's more contact. By 0:33, Kyrie has again changed directions and moved to plan C. At 0:34, he starts moving again to get to his next spot. Video is paused from 0:35-0:50. 0:51-0:54 is the time it took Kyrie to get from under the basket to behind the three point line. All of that happened in a span of 10 seconds. There was constant effort to get around the defender and make something happen. If Curry impeded his progress, he adjusted and went to the next motion. Now let's break down the clip Smirkin Dirk posted. He calls the play at 0:02, on his way up the court, and gets to the spot to start it at 0:05. The play itself doesn't even start until everyone else gets to their spots at 0:11. That's red flag #1. Players should be getting to their spots as soon as the play is called, and it shouldn't take 6 seconds to do so even if they wait until the PG gets to his. The next part of the play is designed for Redick to run along the baseline, get an off-ball screen, and run to the elbow. He starts to make his move at 0:12, sort of. He does a couple of excessive back and forth movements, which more or less wastes time. He finally starts trying to run at 0:15. So we're already at 10 seconds just to get plan A to start. At 0:16, Redick gets bodied up by Fournier. He continues to just walk and push against him, without trying to make a move to get around him until 0:18, when he finally makes the cut toward the elbow. If the video wasn't paused, he would have reached his spot at 0:19. So it took 15 seconds (0:05-0:19) to run a simple off-ball screen play with 0 adjustments or branches. So how is that realistic?

I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I never suggested the way the plays were ran is realistic... I agree with you in that regard.I disagree that physicality is the problem. In SmirkinDirk's clip I suggested that Fournier played his part well based on my belief thay his role was to deny Reddick the ball. Reddick's ability to adjust is the problem in this scenario and why I posted the clip to show that physicality isn't the problem - it's realistic. Players body up good shooters. How those shooters respond is anotjer thing entirely amd wasnt something I addressed.

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