Spamming Passes into the Paint...whats the fix?

[miasma16]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Okay OS, plenty of great gaming minds here...how does this get fixed in a reasonable, balanced manner that benefits gameplay but still shows the variety between bad, solid, good and elite teams/players? Keep in mind I play with Philly so I can and should be seeing different outcomes than many of you...i.e. if Okafor, a bad PNR defender is doing the same thing as Al Horford, HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. That's actually what caused me to write this, it sounds like Tier 1 guys are having the same issue that I am. The issue: Ease of passing the ball into the highest percentage area on the court because our post defenders are incompetent, via point blank entry passes and even big-to-big passing. I had a guy yesterday post up with D. Russell and just paint pass directly to Mosgov 3 feet away...foul or dunk 80% of the time. Here's some of the issues I noticed: 1. Post defenders provide consistently bail out foul the opposition instead of providing solid position defense. 2. Bad position, big men constantly allow easy entry passes into the paint. 3. Big on Big passing sometimes prompts AI help that leaves a player uncovered in the paint. Lets be clear, no defense would leave someone with 2 feet under the basket. 4. Not enough deflected passes on passes into the paint, the most congested area on the court. Too often defenders let the ball go right past them. 5. Too many "from behind" blocks an even worse mechanic to compensate for this. 6. There are myriad of contact animations for layups. Where are the ones for insta-paint contact dunks with defenders right there?. The game's rewarding a bad percentage shot while punishing people who use the shot stick to try shots away from the defender. Too many contacts dunks in general. 7. The hands up animation in the paint automatically makes your defender jump when the offensive player pump fakes? This is inexcusable. If I jump? fine. Don't make my defender do ANYTHING unless I initiate it, thanks. Made worse by the fact point blank guys can dunk right after. So? How does it get fixed? What else are you noticing?

I've noticed on my own end that MyPlayer hardly ever fouls when I react to an offensive player. When I leap early in the paint, I usually trigger a fouling animation. Maybe the solution is to play better defense.

There are a ton of deflected passes at higher difficulty levels. What difficulty are you playing on?

I don't see many from behind blocks, but I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your points. 7 especially. I've turned defensive assist and rebound assist down to 0 and the CPU still thinks it knows better than I do when I should be contesting shots. This is unacceptable and needs to be rectified. There are too many brain fades on behalf of the defense that lead to easy buckets, this game has made huge strides in the last 2 iterations in terms of defense but this is still a major impediment that this franchise needs to overcome.

[clinthc0003]

It simply needs to be MUCH easier to tip/intercept passes coming into the paint. Right now you can see the pass coming from a mile away, switch to the big to deflect it, and he'll just whiff when you hit the steal button more often than not.

There are already too few turnovers by the CPU (and User if you play smart). I'd like to see these balls get tipped out of bounds and intercepted much more often.

One thing I proposed in another thread that could be a potential fix would be to add an option to put your player into a "steal state" by holding down the steal button. This would naturally come with a restriction of movement while the button is held down, but if you are in the passing lane and you are in this state you would always at least tip the ball.

Alternatively, they could make your player react to passes while you're in the "hands up" state that we have now when holding the right stick in a direction.

[alabamarob]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Okay OS, plenty of great gaming minds here...how does this get fixed in a reasonable, balanced manner that benefits gameplay but still shows the variety between bad, solid, good and elite teams/players? Keep in mind I play with Philly so I can and should be seeing different outcomes than many of you...i.e. if Okafor, a bad PNR defender is doing the same thing as Al Horford, HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. That's actually what caused me to write this, it sounds like Tier 1 guys are having the same issue that I am. The issue: Ease of passing the ball into the highest percentage area on the court because our post defenders are incompetent, via point blank entry passes and even big-to-big passing. I had a guy yesterday post up with D. Russell and just paint pass directly to Mosgov 3 feet away...foul or dunk 80% of the time. Here's some of the issues I noticed: 1. Post defenders provide consistently bail out foul the opposition instead of providing solid position defense. 2. Bad position, big men constantly allow easy entry passes into the paint. 3. Big on Big passing sometimes prompts AI help that leaves a player uncovered in the paint. Lets be clear, no defense would leave someone with 2 feet under the basket. 4. Not enough deflected passes on passes into the paint, the most congested area on the court. Too often defenders let the ball go right past them. 5. Too many "from behind" blocks an even worse mechanic to compensate for this. 6. There are myriad of contact animations for layups. Where are the ones for insta-paint contact dunks with defenders right there?. The game's rewarding a bad percentage shot while punishing people who use the shot stick to try shots away from the defender. Too many contacts dunks in general. 7. The hands up animation in the paint automatically makes your defender jump when the offensive player pump fakes? This is inexcusable. If I jump? fine. Don't make my defender do ANYTHING unless I initiate it, thanks. Made worse by the fact point blank guys can dunk right after. So? How does it get fixed? What else are you noticing?

Translation of difficulty.


1. When the Cpu needs a bucket your defenders will give up catches in the restricted area. I dont even get beat on drives that much the cpu's main mode of scoring is a pass in the restricted area for a layup or foul.


2. They need to fix the catch animations and catch angles. They are unrealistic. You can't a full court pass with one hand and finish in one motion. If the catch animations were more realistic and guys had to position themselves in a realistic manner to catch passes, and then finish, we would be half way home.


3. Allow the off ball defenders to keep hands in the passing lane. The defense should be allowed to deter and deflect passes by simply keeping their hands up. Relying on the steal button to consistently get steals and deflections is not a good idea.

[clinthc0003]

Another reason I think we are seeing so many passes into the paint stem from the new off-ball collision system. If I see one of my bigs locked up with another big in a contact animation, I freak out because I know as soon as they break the offensive big will be wide open. It seems like after one of these animations ends, the defender loses awareness of where he is on the floor and where his defender is.

The CPU on higher difficulty levels abuses this mechanic unless you manually switch over and attempt to shut it down.

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by clinthc0003

It simply needs to be MUCH easier to tip/intercept passes coming into the paint. Right now you can see the pass coming from a mile away, switch to the big to deflect it, and he'll just whiff when you hit the steal button more often than not. There are already too few turnovers by the CPU (and User if you play smart). I'd like to see these balls get tipped out of bounds and intercepted much more often. One thing I proposed in another thread that could be a potential fix would be to add an option to put your player into a "steal state" by holding down the steal button. This would naturally come with a restriction of movement while the button is held down, but if you are in the passing lane and you are in this state you would always at least tip the ball. Alternatively, they could make your player react to passes while you're in the "hands up" state that we have now when holding the right stick in a direction.

These are actually really good. I especially like the "steal state" one....balanced with slower movement like you said, is great balance.

I tend to favor stuff like deflections out of bounds. Mechanics like these don't make the game overly sloppy but reward the defense by making the offense have to operate late in the shot clock.

No disrespect to my offline brothers ( I was one of you from 2K11 to 2K15) but exploits are a different animal when in the hands of unscrupulous users. Oftentimes the game doesn't give us the tools to counter them. "Just _______ better" is very often useless.

[Hustle Westbrook]

The interior D is soft as pie in this game. Matter of fact, it was like this last year as well. I remember in an interview with one of the producers before the game came out they said that there would be no more "willy nilly passes in the paint." As we can see that was completely false.

[stillfeelme]

They tried to make it more difficult than 2K16 as far as passing in the paint. I think they did make it slightly more harder than 2K16 but they didn't go all the way. Passing in the paint I agree is much much easier in the game than it should be. The overall paint defense awareness is the problem. Which is totally different than pick and roll defense. I would like to add these to the OP from Kushmir

1. They need to make the defender more "aware" of obvious passing lanes for more of the possesions. The overall defenders don't play the passing lanes correctly. While they are playing the lane they need to do 2.

2. There should be much, much more live ball deflections and turnovers if number 1 is implemented some of these could be recovered by offense or defense. This would make the game much more messy by passing the ball in the paint. I know people would complain on this one. This enough would cause most people to change their game up if they knew there were consequences.

3. The next thing is to look at the actual affect of generating a effective "contested" animation in the paint. Physics is not all the way there and some animations still slip and feels like you are not there. This is noticeable against the CPU on double teams This leads to I think much higher %'s

4. They probably need to look at the speed at which players go from pass catch animations to shot animations. They need more gather animations to transition from catch to shot. They need to add some passes that are high which causes the big to jump to catch to receive the pass. They then need some passes that are lower and for most bigs causes bobbles or turnovers.

Now combine all of that and you probably get much more mid range jumpers in the game for the majority of teams.

[clinthc0003]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

These are actually really good. I especially like the "steal state" one....balanced with slower movement like you said, is great balance. I tend to favor stuff like deflections out of bounds. Mechanics like these don't make the game overly sloppy but reward the defense by making the offense have to operate late in the shot clock. No disrespect to my offline brothers ( I was one of you from 2K11 to 2K15) but exploits are a different animal when in the hands of unscrupulous users. Oftentimes the game doesn't give us the tools to counter them. "Just _______ better" is very often useless.

Oh I hear you loud and clear. I like to do some Play Now Online myself. I've ran across a ton of guys abusing this online as well. It's even harder to defend online since you're dealing with latency on top of the sketchy paint defense.