PLEASE FIX THE OFF BALL DEFENSE

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Graphik

I read this last night and searched for this post because this is exactly how I feel with the game right now. I've tried everything and its becoming tiresome. I mess with sliders, find a nice balance then Mike updates and everything turns into bullcrap. I swear it feels like people are playing different versions of the game.

How much do you make defensive adjustments during the game and what difficulty do you play?

[Insight23]

Quote: Originally Posted by clinthc0003

Yeah, you absolutely have to manually control the defender of the shooter if you see someone coming off of an off-ball screen. They will light you up if you don't do that right now. I like to have my Off-Ball screen setting to Switch so I have the option of switching out if I can't get there with the original defender. If you are able to get around the screen with the primary defender, the switch will not occur. As far as more advice, I would just say try to make the CPU take contested threes. I think this solution is more of a band aid than a real fix for the problems (which we will hopefully get in the next patch). I hate putting Gap on guys like Dirk, but right now the worst shot for the CPU is a contested three. Even contested mid range seems a little high for the CPU right now. From what I can tell, the passes into the paint seem to kind of be a "last ditch effort" move by the CPU once you shut everything else down. They for sure are not coming out of plays or freelances. I'm fine with the CPU attempting to do that, but right now it's too successful to the point of being broken. We should be rewarded with a steal more often then not if we are able to force the CPU to throw a reckless pass inside (turnovers are already too low as is). It seems as long as you leave them an outlet (where the off-ball gap comes into play), they will pick that over forcing a pass inside and you just have to try your best to contest the shot after they make the pass.

Same as far as switch on off ball. Most of the time I grab the primary defender & I think that causes problems. The secondary defender doesn't react correctly so I'll be sure to make changes to that.

On someone like Dirk I'll set to moderate and it really limits the 3's. It's those passes in the paint that kill me. I'll hit a 3 on the offensive end, run down quickly with the Center setting my defense properly, then the CPU offense breaks down & they throw it in the paint for essentially a 3 point play.

Maybe the CPU figures out my defense because I do tend to stay content with the scheme I start the game with or don't make the right changes. Gotta keep taking a stab at it, although at times, it can be very frustrating.

[Graphik]

Quote: Originally Posted by LorenzoDC

How much do you make defensive adjustments during the game and what difficulty do you play?

Whenever Mike drops an update, I usually go with all star default. Play a few games then make some slider tweaks. I've also been using Sam's defensive settings. Before every game I usually switch help to "all" and switch to "all" and I'll adjust defensive settings throughout the game. Setting some players to tight/tight, off ball-go over, soft hedge and I'll go to big man and tag them on the roller, gap on the lesser shooters, etc.

I've tried to many different settings and some games show progress while others goes back to the out of the box state. Its wierd and random.

What gets me is when I'm studying a team and their season stats....it can say the team is on a 4 game losing streak, shooting 41% from the field, average 52ppg(7 min quaters) and be at the bottom of the conference in the standings. Yet, when I play them, they shoot 60+ first quater and never let up. The game then becomes who can cheese the most. I pull out my bread n butter bs moves and the cpu counters with that gosh darn lead pass.

I replay everytime those lead passes happen to try to remedy it and it just baffles me how random it is. I've even tried switching to the big men on D and those passes still get through. Basically it's impossible to moniter your off ball team mates while trying to prevent a drive, screen, etc and focus on the action on the court at the same time. It only takes a split second for your controlled man to be idle and the cpu takes advantage with that damn cutter.

Overall, it kills my immersion when no matter how good my defense is, the cpu will find a way to score. Then 2 games later, all is good and the numbers and gameplay look and feel great. The lack of consistency is killing me. I can have 2 good playing games followed up by a terrible one that makes me wanna throw my controller.

Btw, one thing I tested and had some success with before the very last update was that I turned user acceleration up +5, lateral quickness +5, bumped up layup streghnth +5 and hands +5. That along with lower shooting sliders provided 3 straight good games. After the release of the tuner, all of this gaming goodness disappeared and now I'm back to the drawing board.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Graphik

Whenever Mike drops an update, I usually go with all star default. Play a few games then make some slider tweaks. I've also been using Sam's defensive settings. Before every game I usually switch help to "all" and switch to "all" and I'll adjust defensive settings throughout the game. Setting some players to tight/tight, off ball-go over, soft hedge and I'll go to big man and tag them on the roller, gap on the lesser shooters, etc. I've tried to many different settings and some games show progress while others goes back to the out of the box state. Its wierd and random. What gets me is when I'm studying a team and their season stats....it can say the team is on a 4 game losing streak, shooting 41% from the field, average 52ppg(7 min quaters) and be at the bottom of the conference in the standings. Yet, when I play them, they shoot 60+ first quater and never let up. The game then becomes who can cheese the most. I pull out my bread n butter bs moves and the cpu counters with that gosh darn lead pass. I replay everytime those lead passes happen to try to remedy it and it just baffles me how random it is. I've even tried switching to the big men on D and those passes still get through. Basically it's impossible to moniter your off ball team mates while trying to prevent a drive, screen, etc and focus on the action on the court at the same time. It only takes a split second for your controlled man to be idle and the cpu takes advantage with that damn cutter. Overall, it kills my immersion when no matter how good my defense is, the cpu will find a way to score. Then 2 games later, all is good and the numbers and gameplay look and feel great. The lack of consistency is killing me. I can have 2 good playing games followed up by a terrible one that makes me wanna throw my controller. Btw, one thing I tested and had some success with before the very last update was that I turned user acceleration up +5, lateral quickness +5, bumped up layup streghnth +5 and hands +5. That along with lower shooting sliders provided 3 straight good games. After the release of the tuner, all of this gaming goodness disappeared and now I'm back to the drawing board.

Ok, got it.

One more question: do you find you do better early in the game than later?

If so, that what I experienced, until I did some real deep dive study of the defensive settings and tips on when to adjust to them for specific players during the game.

Once I learned more of that, I found that I got better at getting a lead and then holding on to it later when the CPU adjusts and maybe their guys get hot or they start to abuse me in a new strategic way.

I found I really can't sleep on the CPU's adjustments, making mine quickly and calling time out sooner than I would have last year when I can smell a couple of bad dice rolls in a row for my team on things like rebounds or loose balls. Those are signs the CPU is getting momentum, and if I don't act quickly with a time out, my 8 point lead cane become a tie game within a minute.

It sounds like from what you said you're playing more like 2k16, where you can hope to more or less set your defensive settings and be mostly good to go with them all game. This year the POE style adjustment PLUS the player based adjustments on D are a constant cat and mouse game.

It all seemed random and overwhelming to be before I started to figure it out. I was getting blown out in the second half and giving up mad points in the paint or having opposing stars get hot and become very hard to slow down once they got a head of steam.

[Graphik]

Quote: Originally Posted by LorenzoDC

Ok, got it. One more question: do you find you do better early in the game than later? If so, that what I experienced, until I did some real deep dive study of the defensive settings and tips on when to adjust to them for specific players during the game. Once I learned more of that, I found that I got better at getting a lead and then holding on to it later when the CPU adjusts and maybe their guys get hot or they start to abuse me in a new strategic way. I found I really can't sleep on the CPU's adjustments, making mine quickly and calling time out sooner than I would have last year when I can smell a couple of bad dice rolls in a row for my team on things like rebounds or loose balls. Those are signs the CPU is getting momentum, and if I don't act quickly with a time out, my 8 point lead cane become a tie game within a minute. It sounds like from what you said you're playing more like 2k16, where you can hope to more or less set your defensive settings and be mostly good to go with them all game. This year the POE style adjustment PLUS the player based adjustments on D are a constant cat and mouse game. It all seemed random and overwhelming to be before I started to figure it out. I was getting blown out in the second half and giving up mad points in the paint or having opposing stars get hot and become very hard to slow down once they got a head of steam.

I agree. This was actually going to be my next set of test. I was going use more POE actions to see if anything can be remedied instead of pre-game adjustments. The cpu does adjust but I thought that having ACE on made my team adjust as well. I have no clue lol..

And all of the games seem random. Some games I come out the gate shooting in the upper 60s in the 1st and some games can start me off cold and me and the cpu will shoot mid 40s. The ladder are the games I enjoy. The shootouts start from opening tip till end game.

I've adjusted strategies mid game as well to minimal success. I usually start applying pressure to guys who light me up first half. Even pressuring the ball handler the full court. Setting doubles on bigs. Changing the hedges, pre-rotating on big men......in the shootouts, nothing seems to work. What I've noticed and this has been a problem since 2K-forever....is when the cpu feels like being cheap, they will be cheap. Some games feel like no matter what you do, how hard you play, how many adjustments you make. You will lose. In 2K17, it has gotten worse. No way in hell should I be almost 30 games into a season and still have games where Im completely out of control of the outcome.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Graphik

I agree. This was actually going to be my next set of test. I was going use more POE actions to see if anything can be remedied instead of pre-game adjustments. The cpu does adjust but I thought that having ACE on made my team adjust as well. I have no clue lol.. And all of the games seem random. Some games I come out the gate shooting in the upper 60s in the 1st and some games can start me off cold and me and the cpu will shoot mid 40s. The ladder are the games I enjoy. The shootouts start from opening tip till end game. I've adjusted strategies mid game as well to minimal success. I usually start applying pressure to guys who light me up first half. Even pressuring the ball handler the full court. Setting doubles on bigs. Changing the hedges, pre-rotating on big men......in the shootouts, nothing seems to work. What I've noticed and this has been a problem since 2K-forever....is when the cpu feels like being cheap, they will be cheap. Some games feel like no matter what you do, how hard you play, how many adjustments you make. You will lose. In 2K17, it has gotten worse. No way in hell should I be almost 30 games into a season and still have games where Im completely out of control of the outcome.

Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. All I know is I had to unlearn the way I did adjustments from 16 to learn to play 17. If you're doubling bigs, you might be over adjusting in some ways. But without seeing your game play and looking at the personnel matchups, it's hard to say if I can help or not.

If you can share a quarter or so of game play and let me have a look, along with showing your defensive settings, I'll see if there's anything that jumps out at me.

[Graphik]

Quote: Originally Posted by LorenzoDC

Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. All I know is I had to unlearn the way I did adjustments from 16 to learn to play 17. If you're doubling bigs, you might be over adjusting in some ways. But without seeing your game play and looking at the personnel matchups, it's hard to say if I can help or not. If you can share a quarter or so of game play and let me have a look, along with showing your defensive settings, I'll see if there's anything that jumps out at me.

I'll give it a shot. One thing I forgot to agree on is the momentum shifts. You are right in saying that you need to call TOs in order to stop them. The cpu used to call TOs for me on these big swings but it seems they wait one or two possessions to late. Especially late game.

I think I'll eventually manage....only if they stop updating the game. For every update, it seems to be a readjustment period because the sliders I just got comfortable with have to be set back to default to feel the changes. It's annoying.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Graphik

I'll give it a shot. One thing I forgot to agree on is the momentum shifts. You are right in saying that you need to call TOs in order to stop them. The cpu used to call TOs for me on these big swings but it seems they wait one or two possessions to late. Especially late game. I think I'll eventually manage....only if they stop updating the game. For every update, it seems to be a readjustment period because the sliders I just got comfortable with have to be set back to default to feel the changes. It's annoying.

Sounds good. I'm sure you'll catch up. Maybe if I spot anything that help I can help you catch up faster.

Or maybe just prove how much I don't actually know.