Deciphering Badges: Defensive Stopper and Rim Protector

[harryl]

Was having a discussion on Badges with other MyTeam players in the MT subforum and we're trying to break down exactly what these two premiere defensive badges actually do. Thought there would be folks in this more expansive main forum who would have a lot to share.

Sorry for the length for those of you who are not into a deep dive. It's a deep dive. Specific details on precisely how these and other badges has driven me nuts since I started playing 2K again. And, in MyTeam, it's an especially big issue because we're very limited in terms of which badges we can add to players. So the question of whether Rim Protector and Defensive Stopper are complementary/overlapping is an "important" one.

[Discussion started in this thread: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...g-thread.html]

Quote: Originally Posted by QNo

I suspect the same thing, makes the most sense to me. This would leave Rim Protector being more similar to last year's Eraser. I feel like Defensive Stopper is a necessary badge on almost any player, and the most important badge in the game. I'm not sure how important Rim Protector is; how often it procs and whether you want to put in on 5s with poor help defense, 4s, or maybe even 3s.

So this is the exact description of the Badges...

Defensive Stopper

"While playing on-ball defense, this badge drops various offensive skills of similarly positioned matchups."

It's a really vague description, in the sense that a lot of different interpretations could be derived from it.

It sounds like:

• "drops various offensive skills": maybe the badge nerfs offensive player's pertinent offensive ratings? What about offensive badges? Which offensive badges?
• "of similarly positioned matchups": "similarly positioned" could mean an opposing Center/big if one is controlling a Center/big. But seems odd that it would not activate if, say, one were controlling a Center out on the perimeter because he got switched onto a guard in a pick'n'roll. So maybe "similarly positioned" is referring to position on the court? Drops offensive skills that are relevant to where on the court the action/shot is taking place? So...nerfs outside shooting if the two players are duking it out on the perimeter and the offensive shooter rises up for a jump shot...but if they're banging in the post, then it nerfs post/inside-scoring ratings or badges?
• "while playing on-ball defense": don't know if this is throwaway verbiage or if it means that one must be in defensive stance, as opposed to merely being in the proximity, which last year's Eraser seemed to suggest would still be valid for activation.

Rim Protector

"An elite shot-blocker who intimidates those around the rim, causing interior shots to be less effective."

This is even vaguer than Defensive Stopper.

• "to be less effective": By nerfing interior scoring ratings...or badges...or both? Or by affecting % chance of the shot going in?
• "causing interior shots": How? By "interior," if impacting ratings, does that mean Post Hook and Post Fade or Shot Close/Layup/Dunk? Or both? What about the relevant badges?
• "An elite shot-blocker who intimidates those around the rim": Is there suggestion of something special going on with Block rating of the defender...like it getting buffed? Is there still a buff to Energy of teammates when a block is made by a badge-holder, the way there was in 2K16?

Obviously, they switched things up so that last year's 3 badges of Post LD, Perimeter LD, and Eraser were narrowed down to the 2 of Defensive Stopper and Rim Protector. It might help to look at what the "starting point" was. So I looked up the descriptions on Post LD and Eraser in 2K16:

Post LD

"...drops offensive post attributes of his matchup. An upgrade...results in further hits to attributes, as well as dropping or negating various post-tailored badges...."

So, Post LD:

• Countered Post Scoring Badges (Post Hook Spec, Post Spin Tech, Dreamlike, Drop Stepper, Post Hoperator, etc.)
• Nerfed offensive post scoring Ratings (Post Hook, Post Fade, maybe Post Control in general?)

Eraser

"...negatively affect the inside shot percentages of opposing players while you're present near the rim. An upgrade...results in lower percentages and removes interior scoring badges from opponents."

So, Eraser:

• Countered Interior Scoring Badges (Hop Stepper, King of Euros, Spin Lay-In, etc.)
• Nerfed not the opponent's shooting ratings, but the % chance of shots going in, which would be determined by ratings.
• Also gave that Energy buff if a Block was made.
• Maybe buffed one's own Block rating?

Factoring in MyCareer/MyPlayer

The requirement for earning the badge in MyCareer can give clues as to how the badge will function once added/achieved/upgraded.

For Rim Protector, the requirement, apparently, is to get 100 blocks in a season. So that reinforces the suspicion that the badge somehow buffs the defender's Block rating or % chance of getting a block. Beyond that, maybe it insinuates that it can activate with any shot taken in the paint/near the rim.

For Defensive Stopper, the requirement is to get a certain number of "points" associated with A) blocking a shot, B) contesting a shot that misses, C) stopping fast breaks. So this suggests that the badge effects shots all over the floor, though it doesn't really speak to how it actually operates or how it may or may not differentiate between "Inside" jumpshots/layups/dunks and "Post" hooks, fades (and post-specific layups and dunks?).

These Badges Nerf Opponent, Not Buff the Defender

One interesting thing to note is that the effect of ALL of these badges, at least as described, is not to IMPROVE the defense of the player, but rather to decrease the offensive rating, effectiveness, and/or badge buffing of the offensive player. Which may be a semantic point, but has some real meaning. Because, if so, then the utility of the badge does not have any relation to the badged defensive player's relevant ratings.

Which is to say: the effect of having Defensive Stopper on Tony Allen is the same, mechanically, as it would be if it were Jamal Crawford who was badged and the defender.

Furthermore, the way they're described, there is no suggestion of a buff to the defender aside from maybe to Block with Rim Protector. If so, then no buff to the badged defender's Lateral Quickness, for example. But what about animations? Does it help get animations like the collision that stops a drive?

TL;DR...My Guess

Doing a close read of the 2K17 badge description, and the 2K16 ones, and comparing them, I think that Rim Protector is like Eraser and affecting "Inside" scoring...decreases the effectiveness of "inside shots" which one has to differentiate from "post-up" shots. In other words: Close shots, Layups, and Dunks.

And since they talk about decreasing "effectiveness," then it sounds like it's nerfing % chance of a shot going in. The verbiage also suggests, maybe, there is something going on with the badged defender's Block rating.

All the post shots (Post Hook/Fade/Stepback, Up and Under) now get affected by Defensive Stopper, as do all jump shots, anywhere on the court. So Defensive Stopper is a combination of the two Lockdown badges of 2K16.

If that's the case, then it counters relevant scoring badges. And, obviously, would work against whatever scoring badges would get activated in that situation: if a jumpshot on the perimeter, might counteract Deep-Range Deadeye and Limitless Range. If in the paint, might counteract Drop-Stepper and Dreamlike Up-and-Under. But, if so, what about Post Spin Technician?

But it just says "drops offensive skills," so it's unclear if it's nerfing badges, or nerfing ratings, or both.

So I don't get the mechanics of the badges, but I do think it's clear that Defensive Stopper corresponds with Post+Perimeter Lockdown Defender, and Rim Protector corresponds to Eraser.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

The badge defensive stopper nerfs the other badges of your opponent. It shouldn't boost your defensive ability . That's what the defensive attributes are for . Rim Protector can actually cause your opponent to go cold . Which knocks if their rhythm and lower attributes while the cold ring is present .

[laoala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rockie_Fresh88

The badge defensive stopper nerfs the other badges of your opponent. It shouldn't boost your defensive ability . That's what the defensive attributes are for . Rim Protector can actually cause your opponent to go cold . Which knocks if their rhythm and lower attributes while the cold ring is present .

That doesn't answer the questions though.

Do guard defensive stoppers negate 3-5? 4-5?

Do big-man defensive stoppers negate 1-2? 1-3? 3?

Does SF defensive stoppers negate 1-5? 1-3? 3-5?

Rim Protector is eraser, which is easy to understand. Negates badges for scoring at the rim + lower FG%. + additional chance for blocks

[poetinjune]

Against Draymond Green, my athletic finisher's HOF lob city finisher drops to gold. Green has gold defensive stopper and silver rim protector.

Against deandre jordan, my guy's HOF lob city finisher drops to silver. Jordan has gold rim protector.

So rim protector lowers badges that are related to finishing and dunks.
I assume defensive stopper lowers all other scoring offensive badges (not dimer or pick and roll maestro). Couldn't test this as my athletic finisher's badges are all finishing badges.

[laoala]

Quote: Originally Posted by poetinjune

Against Draymond Green, my athletic finisher's HOF lob city finisher drops to gold. Green has gold defensive stopper and silver rim protector. Against deandre jordan, my guy's HOF lob city finisher drops to silver. Jordan has gold rim protector. So rim protector lowers badges that are related to finishing and dunks. I assume defensive stopper lowers all other scoring offensive badges (not dimer or pick and roll maestro). Couldn't test this as my athletic finisher's badges are all finishing badges.

defensive stopper negates passing badges as well.

Using individual examples doesn't help us here.

Nor does attempting to combine the rules the base-game uses vs. the pro-am game.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Quote: Originally Posted by laoala

That doesn't answer the questions though. Do guard defensive stoppers negate 3-5? 4-5? Do big-man defensive stoppers negate 1-2? 1-3? 3? Does SF defensive stoppers negate 1-5? 1-3? 3-5? Rim Protector is eraser, which is easy to understand. Negates badges for scoring at the rim + lower FG%. + additional chance for blocks

my defensive stopper activates around the rim and on the perimeter . I'm a PF.

[derekwade111]

Defensive stopper makes it so the person your defending can't activate thinks like catch n shoot dimer corner specialist and other badges that would boost the players shooting percentage

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[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by laoala

That doesn't answer the questions though. Do guard defensive stoppers negate 3-5? 4-5? Do big-man defensive stoppers negate 1-2? 1-3? 3?

At first, I felt like "similarly positioned" couldn't possible mean that, if applied to a Guard, could only activate if defending a Guard or maybe a "SF/Wing." Or only with Bigs vs. Bigs.

But I suppose it's possible and, if so, it could sort of make sense.

And sort of not, because why would Gobert be any better at defending Boogie while Boogie is taking a 3-point shot, versus guarding a guard doing the same?

But "similarly positioned" is hard to interpret any other way. So it's up in the air and I guess we need to see if anyone has video of a Big Defensive Stopper having the badge activate against a Guard on the perimeter (or vice-versa).