NBA2K18 MyLeague Re-Vamp Talk

[ronyell]

WARNING: Long post coming...

Every year 2K gives us some new big & shiny features. Some that are brilliant, some that would be legendary if implemented & working properly & some that just weren’t necessary.

I wanted to go through some things that SimWorld would like to see as new (some old) concepts / features for NBA2K18 or beyond mainly for MyLeague cohesion. Much of which will be in an effort to simplify things yet create some distinction between teams, players & coaches without creating coding issues while developing.

Let’s start with ROTATIONS. The advanced rotation concept was a step in the right direction but again I believe that it could be simplified. We use to have different lineup options but they formatted for the wrong options and were only available to the user. They’re should be a setup more like this:

STARTERS – the players that start the 1st & 2nd halves

CLOSERS – the players that are on the court for the final 5 minutes of each half (can be overridden by coaching profile in OT or 2nd half if the coach has a high enough “lineup performance” number)

PRIMARY – the lineup that logs the most minutes together (outside of the STARTER & CLOSING lineups)

SMALL BALL – the lineup that a coach may go to employ a “small ball” strategy

BLOWOUT – the lineup that comes into the game within the final 7 to 5 minutes of a blowout

If we are given an option to assign a 6th man & rotational tags to players OR the assignments on the rotation screen were tied to the players, this would eliminate the rotation timing issues that have been plaguing the series for the past years.

Okay, so I spoke about coaching profiles… let’s open back up all of the available options that we had before like help defense, transition, etc. OR let’s simplify (a word that I’m going to use a lot) the theme. Before I start this portion let me first say that 2k had something great when they created All-Pro football as it eliminated absolute numbers with a tier system much like we have in badges now. Many have said that they would like to see a version of what I’m about to mention but I’m gonna go ahead and mildly expound. COACHING PROFILES.

Replace the coaching profile tendency “numbers” (and points of emphasis) with tendency “badges”. Badges tiered as: light, medium & heavy emphasis. This would distinct styles for coaches instead of using numbers that have no real parameters to them aside from cutoff points.

These would be the badges to signify points of emphasis in my opinion:

OFFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY (4 max)
PLAY THROUGH STARS
BALL MOVEMENT
PLAYER MOVEMENT
MAKE SPACE
HUNT FOR THREE
POUND THE PAINT
ATTACK THE BASKET
TRIANGLE

These will still be managed by the playbooks

TEMPO PHILOSOPHY (dictates how fast the team brings the ball up the court when not in transition & dictates pace – 1 max)
7 SECONDS OR LESS
UPTEMPO
MYTHODICAL (still takes transition opportunities)
NUETRAL

TRANSITION PHILOSOHPHY (1 max)
FORCE THE BREAK
RUN A SET
NUETRAL (dictated by individual players)

OFFENSIVE REBOUNDING PHILOSOPHY (1 max)
CRASH THE GLASS
NUETRAL (dictated by individual players)

DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING PHILOSOPHY (1 max)
CRASH THE GLASS
NUETRAL (dictated by individual players)

DEFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY (4 max)
PACK THE PAINT
TRAP THE CORNERS
SWITCH ON PERIMETER
SWITCH EVERYTHING
FORCE BASELINE
FORCE TO MIDDLE
CONTEST EVERYTHING (could put you in bad position against offensive rebounding if you don’t have the right players)
GET BACK ON D (could put you in bad position to get offensive rebounds if you don’t have the right players)
JUNK ZONE

Each of these options would give each coach an ACTUAL philosophy and these philosophies all have pros & cons. There should still be badges that dictate traits about coaches but these are distinctly for philosophy & to remove the arbitrary numbers that are used now. Lastly these should be dynamic based on the coach’s roster personnel (ratings and badges)

Speaking of player badges. Let’s reformat some of those tendencies & tendencies with sliders & tiered badges of “rarely, moderate, often & focus”, and add some additional ones too shall we… This would determine the emphasis of these items to that player thus determining how often they do them in relation to when it’s appropriate.

TENDENCY SLIDERS:
SCORE vs READ
GET SPACE FOR JUMPER vs DRIVE
PULL-UP vs ATTACK RIM
DRIVE LEFT vs DRIVE RIGHT
PULL-UP FOR 3 IN TRANSITION vs ATTACK RIM IN TRANSITION
MID-RANGE JUMPER vs THREE-POINT JUMPER
RIM-RUN IN TRANSITION vs SPOT-UP IN TRANSITION
SMART STANDING LAYUP (utilizes pump fakes) vs FORCE STANDING DUNK
SMART LAYUP vs FORCE DUNK
SMART PASS vs SPECTACULAR PASS
GET BACK ON D vs CRASH OFFENSIVE GLASS
RUN BREAK vs CRASH DEFENSIVE GLASS
SPOT-UP vs OFF-BALL MOVEMENT
ROLL vs POP
TAKE CHARGE vs CONTEST
MOVE FEET vs REACH
DRAW FOUL vs FINISH
BOXOUT/PROTECT RIM vs GO FOR BLOCK
PLAY PASSING LANE vs STRAIGHT DEFEND
HELP ON D vs STAY HOME
POST-UP vs FACE-UP (with or without ball)
STEP THROUGH vs SHOOT CONTESTED
USE GLASS vs NOTHING BUT NET
ATTACK WITH FINESSE vs ATTACK STRONG
POST HOOK LEFT vs POST HOOK RIGHT
POST FADE LEFT vs POST FADE RIGHT
POST SHIMMY LEFT vs POST SHIMMY RIGHT
TIP/DUNK vs SECURE BALL
GIVE UP SCORE vs GIVE FOUL
LEFT HAND vs RIGHT HAND


I’m sure a I may be forgetting some but hey… that’s what I have off the top of my head. Here are some badges to dictate the availability of moves, animations and effort. Again, these badges will be tiered as “rarely, moderate, often & focus”.

TENDENCY BADGES:
JUMPERS: pull-up – step back – spin
FLASHY DUNK
ALLEY-OOP
CRASH (can help get late foul calls)
LAYUPS: spin – hop step – euro – floater
TRIPLE THREAT
POST UP & UNDER
POST SPIN
POST HOP STEP
POST DROP STEP
TOUCHES
OFFENSIVE REBOUND
DEFENSIVE REBOUND
HUSTLE

Of course the tendency sliders and tendency badges will be further dictated and availability determined by RATING BADGES to replace attribute numbers and will be tiered as subpar, average, good & great… so let’s get to those.

RATINGS BADGES:
LAYUP
CONTACT LAYUP
IN-TRAFFIC LAYUP
DUNK
CONTACT DUNK
IN-TRAFFIC DUNK
MID-RANGE JUMPER
3-POINT JUMPER
CONTESTED JUMPER
OFF-THE DRIIBBLE JUMPER
FREE THROW
SPACING/CUTTING IQ
BALL SECURITY
BALL HANDLING
PASSING VISION
PASSING IQ
PASSING ACCURACY
MOVING PASS
POST PASSING
READ DEFENSE
SHOT IQ (taking quality shots)
HANDS (ability to catch)
LATERAL QUICKNESS
HELP DEFENSE IQ
ON-BALL DEFENSIVE IQ
LOW POST DEFENSIVE IQ
PICK & ROLL DEFENSIVE IQ
SHOT BLOCKING TIMING
ON-BALL STEAL TIMING
PASSING LANE ANTICIPATION
OFFENSIVE CONSISTENCY
DEFENSIVE CONSISTENCY
STRENGTH
STAMINA
VERTICAL
FIRST STEP
SPEED (speed with ball determined by ball handling ability)
INTANGIBLES
POTENTIAL

And; some of these ratings should be capped and limited by height and weight unless the player is at a particular age & potential. I don’t really want to get into the current badges as I believe many of them are redundant and overpowered. But you know what let’s do it anyway as it’ll be a good segue into my next subject.

Here are the current badges that I feel should be removed as they would be replaced in our system, or they are simply not necessary:

TEAR DROPPER
PUTBACK KING
PICK & ROLLER
POST SPIN TECHNICIAN
DROP-STEPPER
DREAM-LIKE UP & UNDER
CORNER SPECIALIST
MID-RANGE DEADEYE
DEEP RANGE DEADEYE
PICK & POPPER
CATCH & SHOOT
PICK & ROLL MAESTRO

At most, these should put into a list of items that describe a player and be used as factors for the AI coach to determine what kind of team he has and dynamically adapt his philosophy each year at the start of the season.

I also believe that badges should be used as the coding triggers for commentators to speak about. This way there could be commentary about CAP and draft class players so that MyLeague does not get stale.

Now let’s talk progression / regression. Generally speaking players develop IQ and shooting as they progress and players lose physical ability as they regress and for the most part those are the only areas that should be changing… here is a format that I made a few years ago.

18 to 23 years old:
inside & layup shot MAY progress
mid-range shot MAY progress
3-ponit shotMAY progress
free throw shot MAY progress
on-ball defense/lateral quickness MAY progress
offensive & defensive IQ WILL progress
strength MAY progress
post offense & defense MAY progress
rebounding (forwards & centers only) MAY progress
consistency MAY progress

24 to 29 years old:
3-point shot WILL progress
free throw shot MAY progress
offensive & defensive IQ MAY progress
consistency MAY progress
post shots MAY progress

30 to 33 years old:
3-point shot MAY progress
free throw shot MAY progress
offensive & defensive IQ MAY progress
post shots MAY progress
on-ball defense/lateral quickness WILL regress
dunk WILL regress
stamina MAY regress
speed MAY regress
quickness WILL regress
vertical WILL regress
mid-range shooting & spot-up tendencies WILL progress
drive, dunk & touches tendencies WILL regress
MAY DEVELOP "SHOOTING" sig skills

34 years old & up:
on-ball defense/lateral quickness WILL regress
dunk WILL regress
stamina WILL regress
speed WILL regress
quickness WILL regress
vertical WILL regress
drive, dunk & touches tendencies WILL regress

I believe that these are THE ONLY ratings that should EVER change & the ONLY time frames in which they should change once a player is drafted into the NBA. Are there occasional exceptions in real life?... of course; but this is the way for 2k to emulate progression & decline in my opinion. Don't you HATE seeing players still hammering home highlight dunks at the age of 34 well into my association & seeing other players not make the natural progressions that most players make in the NBA. Although I do NOT think that ALL players should undergo the same EXACT progression/regression BUT these are some guidelines for what should & shouldn't change & these are the time frames that most players undergo these changes. If this was a system in place it would be relatively easy to code.

Last few things that I wanna mention:

HOT SPOTS should be replaced with what I like to call a players’ “sweet spot”. Most players have about three areas of the court that they like to get to; be it the left elbow, the right corner three or the left low block. This would be used to make offensive players do their best to get to those spots as their shots would have a small increase on percentage if they were to shoot from there. That allows more defensive strategy as well.

Of course, please give us some form of a d-league or somewhere to stash players, allow us to sign over our roster limit when players are injured and allow us to create coaches. I could go on & on & on but that was just a few things on the mind of the SimWorld tonight. If this stays alive and we get some more good stuff from the community I will keep it updated in the OP in hopes that 2k takes a nod.

[rich8682]

Lot of good ideas here. However, this stuff will never ever happen. Why? Because if overalls were taken out, people would lose their ****. 2k also uses the pre release overall rating lists to get hype for the game and get people talking.

Also, 2k no longer gives a damn about offline gamers. They put in the shiny new features like expansion and relocation, and some that are just unnecessary, like rule changes, but ignore the core aspects like the ratings and stats 5+ years in. There was a post showing that there were like 25 guys with 99 3 point rating 5 or 10 years into myleague. And to fix that, you have to do some super tedious crap that just sucks all the fun out of the mode.

And people fall for this **** hook line and sinker too. If you go on the Madden boards, people always compare Maddens franchise to 2k's. But Madden 17's is actually a very solid mode. The stats and ratings aren't screwed 10 years in.

Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk

[turty11]

you have me with everything but badges. the badge system needs to go entirely but it wont..because that would be less VC $$

the coaching/lineup revamp NEEDS to happen as right now its maybe 20% realistic in terms of how lineups/coaching works

[joosegoose]

Quote: Originally Posted by rich8682

Lot of good ideas here. However, this stuff will never ever happen. Why? Because if overalls were taken out, people would lose their ****. 2k also uses the pre release overall rating lists to get hype for the game and get people talking. Also, 2k no longer gives a damn about offline gamers. They put in the shiny new features like expansion and relocation, and some that are just unnecessary, like rule changes, but ignore the core aspects like the ratings and stats 5+ years in. There was a post showing that there were like 25 guys with 99 3 point rating 5 or 10 years into myleague. And to fix that, you have to do some super tedious crap that just sucks all the fun out of the mode. And people fall for this **** hook line and sinker too. If you go on the Madden boards, people always compare Maddens franchise to 2k's. But Madden 17's is actually a very solid mode. The stats and ratings aren't screwed 10 years in. Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk

I don't disagree with your post at all, just want to point out this specifically.

The fix that was eventually figured out is actually very straightforward, it simply requires the adjustment of team training sliders which have already been uploaded to all 3 platforms. It takes maybe 5 minutes to apply the workaround. Plus, it sounds like it should be fixed on 2k's end for an upcoming patch so the workaround will hopefully be temporary.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...e-sliders.html

Quote: Originally Posted by turty11

you have me with everything but badges. the badge system needs to go entirely but it wont..because that would be less VC $$ the coaching/lineup revamp NEEDS to happen as right now its maybe 20% realistic in terms of how lineups/coaching works

Yeah, way too many problems with coaching and lineups. Coaching needs a lot of work from both a gameplan and GM/hiring perspective and lineups are still awful despite the advanced rotations I let myself get hyped for.

[Comduklakis]

lot of work in your post (not all myleague related, most just general ratings talk). Great ideas and I want to really second rotations, tendencies, and progression/regression. Along with contracts/FA/trade logic (which I understand being much more difficult than doing what you are talking about) these have been the thorn in the side of the game for a long time.

Rotations have never seemed to be a tough fix to me (granted I don't code software). I simply think they don't bother. It flies under the radar. Over the years we've had the issues with 6th men not getting assigned minutes, guys with 3 or more fouls still playing in the 1st half, no use of scrubs in blowouts, scrubs receiving "1 minute" of time despite not playing, etc. It seems they have gotten better on these issues. But there is still a long way to go and I've always said the issue (aside from how much impact overall has on rotations by the AI) is the difficulty the AI has in dealing with players at multiple positions. Understanding the Kevin Durant may at some point play anywhere from the 2 to the 5 spot for a period of time boggles the AI's little mind. Heck, merely having a Tobias Harris type who swings between 3 and 4 is difficult. I don't have the answer, but it needs to be solved and providing the types of entries you are talking about fixes it for the user team (or in 30 team control) but may still leave the non user teams struggling with using proper rotations and minute use.

Many players overlook tendencies. One of the big things Bedwaredsroy (who now works for NBA2k) really did was edit tendencies on his rosters to make them work properly. There has to be a give and take between shot tendency. Too many generated draft classes over the years have been filled with guys with shot tendencies of 18 all over the class, or now non PGs all with sub 25 pass tendencies. The right tendencies make or break a good roster or good draft classes. Not nearly enough attention is given to this by 2k roster developers (which I had hoped would change with Bedwards joining 2k, but who knows the politics behind the scenes).

I pointed out the issue with progression/regression in the past to 2k developers on the site. I noted how it made ZERO sense for Manu Ginobili to be LOSING any points on any sort of IQ settings as he aged. In fact most players get smarter to the day they retire because they learn to compensate for fading physical skills. It's high time that once a player peaks in shot IQ, Pass IQ, defensive IQ, etc. they don't regress. EVER. It's high time that regression is focused on physical skills only, and largely based on things like vertical, speed, etc. Often the shot is the last to go. I'd also like to see them implement a system where regression/progression is more random. Let's have a Dwight Howard type be done at 31. It happens. Let's have a Ray Allen type play great into his late 30s. Having an almost uniform, across the board regression for players just because they hit a certain age isn't realistic. It needs to have more variety. Some guys tank fast. Some guys stay at a high level for a longer period of time. It's time 2k recognized this.

As far as overall, it will continue to impact 2k in a ton of ways. They can claim the AI looks at other things, but ultimately overall impacts contract size, trades, draft position, rotations, free agent signings, etc. I don't know if they get to the point where the AI is capable of recognizing that, for example, the Detroit Pistons would value a trade for Ryan Anderson more than Dwight Howard. Howard's "overall" is better" but Anderson has the skill set the Pistons want in their offense and is a better fit. I don't foresee the AI recognizing the value of 3 and D guys to different teams. Again as a non coding guy, it just seems beyond the realm of possibility to code all it would take to get the AI to the point of being able to recognize so many factors in trades (e.g. age, potential, need, chemistry, fit for the system, etc.). My first simmed year of Myleague (once I take it serious it is 30 team control) I saw about 12 trades (with it set at 50 in the sliders) and almost everyone was a swap of guys who played the same position and had overalls within a few points. No trades were made by the AI to ditch salary,, to get draft picks to rebuild, to get rid of a postion they were strong at to strengthen another position, none of that occurred. We've been hearing about better trade logic for years, but ultimately it's as bad as ever.