Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

[isdatyt]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tPI9lDOo_No" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this video Sam Pham covers many of the absurd AI decisions that make this game rage inducing. Horrible defensive logic that makes this game unplayable at times, even with his excellent defensive settings and after playing about 6 online games after patch 1.05 I can confirm that all of these issues, and more, still exist in 2K17. It really drains the fun out of the game, even when you win, when you or your opponent scores off of BS CPU controlled player decisions. These in the video as well as things like turbo cheese, defenders not recognizing threats, and many other glitches and mishaps are simply inexcusable at this point.

[prestwood90]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I think the defense has improved with the patch, it's not perfect but neither is nba defense, there's blunders and mistakes in the nba

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[isdatyt]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I think the defense has improved with the patch, it's not perfect but neither is nba defense, there's blunders and mistakes in the nba

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

It hasn't at all. Maybe in modes like MyCareer where the entire defense is AI/CPU but in Online modes against other players, non-player-controlled defenders are just as lost as ever. I've been playing MyTeam Online all morning since the patch and it's still horrendous.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I play online and think the defense has improved with the patch, but it still has a way to go._.

I was hoping Pham touched on some deeper things.._his first two examples were a bit meh for me but everything after was on point and I am glad he put it out there.


2k seems to be bringing this out of even the most even keeled guys this year, lol

[prestwood90]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I play online and think the defense has improved with the patch, but it still has a way to go._.

I was hoping Pham touched on some deeper things.._his first two examples were a bit meh for me but everything after was on point and I am glad he put it out there.


2k seems to be bringing this out of even the most even keeled guys this year, lol

Lol I think sam is pissed because OG told him he didn't know what he was talking about on Twitter the other day lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[ffaacc03]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tPI9lDOo_No" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this video Sam Pham covers many of the absurd AI decisions that make this game rage inducing. Horrible defensive logic that makes this game unplayable at times, even with his excellent defensive settings and after playing about 6 online games after patch 1.05 I can confirm that all of these issues, and more, still exist in 2K17. It really drains the fun out of the game, even when you win, when you or your opponent scores off of BS CPU controlled player decisions. These in the video as well as things like turbo cheese, defenders not recognizing threats, and many other glitches and mishaps are simply inexcusable at this point.

Even tho he is right for the majority of the issues, lets play devil's advocate ... the first 2 plays highlighted as issues have reasons as to why they resulted in what we saw:

1st play at 1:12, that is not a contest, he is by the side of the shooter, not in front of him, not even partially to block his sight to the bucket, that is why the AI decided to try a contest to the unopened player. On past 2Ks it was considered a good contest, not anymore.

The 2nd play after that one, even tho I agree about the jogging of Sams AI defender, once it was approaching to the ball handler the AI thought Sam (handling the big man) was in a position to do a better contest to the shooter, yet Sam didnt, so the shooter made the attempt unguarded.

Now, let's do a little more research, what were the D settings like ? Were the help AI set to No Help or was it set to always help, if so, that is why, the AI believed on the 1st occasion that a contest was needed as there was no contest, on the 2nd occasion the AI believed that the human players was going to help, thus it didnt.

Are there issues, yes, but one has to let anger go fully, before making judgements to further and deeply identify issues so 2K can address it, sometimes we let sentiments blur our judgement and thus cause noise within the message we sent to 2K.

Again, there are issues but those 2, IMHO, weren't and aren't part of what is wrong.

Also we have to consider how there have been made huge advancements on the AI logic from the D side by some worthy roster editors (Simworld Roster guys), just by editing the attributes and tendencies, one has to definitively take into account the values of all players involved in a play to fully see if it is a fault in the logic or a fault in the players that dont have the necessary values to rotate well or not to ... as much as I like online balance, there has to be player differentiation in all levels, bad defensive players should portrait that on the 2K court even if it means some form of disadvantage for those who play with lesser teams ... now, do the scale for assigning values may need a revision ? yes and that is assuming values are assigned by merit on a player to player bases, which sadly isn't the case as well as with many other attributes/tendencies.

Hope to not be seen as troll or as bashing Sam or diminishing his outstanding contributions for the OS/2K/online community. Am just giving a different point of view, so we all try to help 2K identify its specific areas that need improvement.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

Sam posted this video before the patch dropped. So lets see if he has a change of heart now.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

Even tho he is right for the majority of the issues, lets play devil's advocate ... the first 2 plays highlighted as issues have reasons as to why they resulted in what we saw:

1st play at 1:12, that is not a contest, he is by the side of the shooter, not in front of him, not even partially to block his sight to the bucket, that is why the AI decided to try a contest to the unopened player. On past 2Ks it was considered a good contest, not anymore.

The 2nd play after that one, even tho I agree about the jogging of Sams AI defender, once it was approaching to the ball handler the AI thought Sam (handling the big man) was in a position to do a better contest to the shooter, yet Sam didnt, so the shooter made the attempt unguarded.

Now, let's do a little more research, what were the D settings like ? Were the help AI set to No Help or was it set to always help, if so, that is why, the AI believed on the 1st occasion that a contest was needed as there was no contest, on the 2nd occasion the AI believed that the human players was going to help, thus it didnt.

Are there issues, yes, but one has to let anger go fully, before making judgements to further and deeply identify issues so 2K can address it, sometimes we let sentiments blur our judgement and thus cause noise within the message we sent to 2K.

Again, there are issues but those 2, IMHO, weren't and aren't part of what is wrong.

Also we have to consider how there have been made huge advancements on the AI logic from the D side by some worthy roster editors (Simworld Roster guys), just by editing the attributes and tendencies, one has to definitively take into account the values of all players involved in a play to fully see if it is a fault in the logic or a fault in the players that dont have the necessary values to rotate well or not to ... as much as I like online balance, there has to be player differentiation in all levels, bad defensive players should portrait that on the 2K court even if it means some form of disadvantage for those who play with lesser teams ... now, do the scale for assigning values may need a revision ? yes and that is assuming values are assigned by merit on a player to player bases, which sadly isn't the case as well as with many other attributes/tendencies.

Hope to not be seen as troll or as bashing Sam or diminishing his outstanding contributions for the OS/2K/online community. Am just giving a different point of view, so we all try to help 2K identify its specific areas that need improvement.

1. The green under the player tells you that you are in range and are actively defending the player. His problem was that Rip decides to stand there and pretend that Klay didn't reach his man (albeit late) and awkwardly put his hand up several feet away which will do nothing, leading to an open 3

2. That's not the case. The game is even telling Sam the guy he is controlling is supposed to be guarding the inbound passer who is still down the court. RIP is just idly standing out of position for no reason and then very idiotically starts slowly shuffling to start playing defence. Why would the AI purposely force you to have to pick up a guard with a center for NO reason when the person supposed to be guarding him is not occupied (its literally 4 on 3 in favour of the defence). CPU RIP is literally shuffling his feet in defensive stance while the ballhandler (his man) runs to an open spot at the 3pt line. I can't see any defence for that logic

Based off of his previous videos, I'm assuming he's using help and no rotation. For the first play, it looks like the CPU rotates and leaves JR. For the second I have no clue what the CPU is doing because it made an effort to defend the player but it triggered the wrong movement animation, so I don't think it expected him to rotate at all

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I've played 5/6 career games on HoF and although double teams have been eased, the cpu still has free reign to pass to their team mate standing under the rim, without my team mates doing anything but standing around (often out of bounds), whereas the cpu defence seems a little more ridiculous at flying through the air and mirroring cpu controller input. The cpu is getting 2/3 times the amount of free throws per game because of this. KAT has fouled out in the 3rd qtr of 2 of those games due to recovery fouls resulting from this same issue.

[Comduklakis]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I love sim basketball as much as anyone. Heck I spent an inordinate amount of time in 30 team control just to make sure every contract, trade, roster decision, rotation, etc is "realistic."

that said, I take a bit of an issue with people who always respond to AI madness with a tutorial on defensive settings. Yes, i get that defensive settings can be important, but 2k is missing the boat if they expect every player to have the expertise or desire to constantly adjust defensive settings every quarter or even every game just to have the defensive AI not act like morons.

There is a fine line between sim basketall and overkill and IMO needing to update your defensive settings every 3 minutes manually because the auto AI sucks, goes over that line.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

Lol the defense has been trash since last year. All the issues that he brought up in this video were in the game last year and the fact that they weren't corrected is utterly pathetic.

[MadManCometh]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

As an online player I appreciate this video because I felt I was the only one noticing the little things like that. Defense is pathetic!!!! Guys wondering around and not getting to their assignments while a guy spots up for 3 is crazy!!! Then people think shooting is the culprit. No, the fact that defenders leave their man open consistently is the problem.


The game is fundamentally broken due to this. Then when the dev(s) come to the site ppl look up to them like their done a good job. Yet, it's the very same individuals is to why the game has the fatal issues it has. NO, they have not done a good job!!! They are in fact part of the problem. Is just pathetic and it's unacceptable.

[Luke Skywalker]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

MyTeam Online is a mess. Very casual.

[keshunleon]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

I play offline and it kills me the 1st defender always runs to the middle of the paint to play defense! This causes so many issues with the game itself.

Since the patch I'm seeing my C getting beat down the court and the CPU passing the ball to an open man. At times they will be looking at the ball, go for the steal but miss it for an easy score.

[mr nba2k]

Re: Sam Pham illustrates what's wrong with 2K17

THE RESAON THIS HAPPENS

02:01 - 02:47 .... Francis is in the zone because of two reasons. you either have help rules ON or your have pre-rotate ON for the person francis is defending. so because its a 3 on 2 break from 02:09 until 02:19 francis is gonna play the lane because he is the last line of defense. he will not commit to penny because you cant fully commit on a 3-2 so instead he play's the middle until 02:19. the moment it was no longer a 3 on 2 thats when curry became the immediate threat because penny had someone close enough to cover him.

01:02 - 01:19 ...... Klay Thompson was trailing and clearly out of position to defend so at 01:06 thats when Hamilton decided to pick up because help rules is on and Thompson lost his defender. Thompson recovers but Hamilton contest the shot instead of going back to his man. i think this happen because maybe shot contest is set to always or intense D. Although i could be wrong with this one.

01:34 - 01:45 .......BRUHHHHH

00:42 - 00:52 ....... No idea, **** always happens.

Just my thoughts.