2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

[Thetruth9012]

Great videos as always.

I have the same experience since i remember.

It hurts you offline and online i almost destroyed 2k disc because on Myteam i had great D but guys still could pass to the paint and score with deandre jordan like 25 points using pumpfakes or just dunking on open lane no paint defense at all...

But what i hate the most is that i can use same play again and again and have open 3 with curry can you stress that too?


Wysłane z mojego LG-H525n przy użyciu Tapatalka

[Impetuous65]

What Pains me more than anything is the Gameplay designer stating that they have spoke to 28 NBA Teams and they specifically shared their defensive techniques with the NBA 2K Dev Team so we have programmed all those ACE defensive packages into the game, we have 6,000 adjustment on Defense that can be done by ACE, and if you would like to be the Architect, Turn ACE off and make those decisions yourself. Man that statement resonates with me and it pisses me off because none of it is true, just lip service.

[Goffs]

If 2k basketball was only made in the late 80's or early 90's lol. Defense was far more physical than it is now. Sure they have old school NY and Detroit teams ingame but they sure don't play defense like their real life counterparts.

More physicality, better defensive AI awareness, no more forced back pedalling (every damn year this annoys me most), defensive players having the same movement as the offensive players (offball) These I think will help improve defense next year immensely.

Please let next year be THE year of defense.

[landman2069]

This is so important to address. I have a real struggle to play online and have a great competitive game. It just doesn't feel fun to constantly watch which defender I should keep from screwing up. This is after spending most of my 2 minutes pregame trying to set adjustments to limit it while my opponent just has to sit and look at a stupid black screen instead of making their own adjustment. Then I get the opportunity to look at a black screen. Fun stuff for sure.

Then the 2k hype machine hits up twitter and stuff like that with useless free agent codes only to not say one thing about these issues. Just come out and say you are working on it and am a month away or we just can't patch this.

There's too much mystery about what they are trying to do with the game. They seem to be building a simulation game but wrecking that with arcade game animation.

[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by Impetuous65

What Pains me more than anything is the Gameplay designer stating that they have spoke to 28 NBA Teams and they specifically shared their defensive techniques with the NBA 2K Dev Team so we have programmed all those ACE defensive packages into the game, we have 6,000 adjustment on Defense that can be done by ACE, and if you would like to be the Architect, Turn ACE off and make those decisions yourself. Man that statement resonates with me and it pisses me off because none of it is true, just lip service.

This isn't untrue, the ability to make defensive adjustments is pretty awesome this year. But all of that is kinda insignificant when the paint protect defense by the center is like this. None of those adjustments become necessary when the CPU refuses to protect the paint properly

[Smirkin Dirk]

Sam I think your video is very helpful and will ultimately help to improve the game.

But allow me to provide a counterpoint. You've found a play the CPU cannot defend. We will keep finding them for years to come. This does not invalidate the game's defensive underpinnings.

By pure coincidence I played the Jazz in my MyLeague game last night. Here are 3 occasions when Jazz bigs smartly played off their men to protect the rim.



Im sure you'll recall a couple of years ago when shotblocking was nearly completely absent from 2K.

We're 2 years into a project which is already showing off AI offensive and defensive decision making which has never been done in a sports video game. OG himself will tell you how far they've got to go.

At the moment, the AI is good at making the first decision. Whether it be a double, a switch, a rotation or whatever. The big area for improvement for 2K's defense is nailing those decisions that occur after the 1st one. Ive been banging on about how nobody rotates after a double has occured even 1 pass away. Im sure that will be dripfed in as ACE is developed.

The project of getting 5 guys to play on a string is multi-multi-multi year project. You've shown that the CPU is not able to adjust to certain plays in sets. The CPU does have interior defense; it's not broken.

A user who runs a realistic variety of plays in different sets will see a defense which does have some weaknesses, but also makes excellent reads and adapts often.

[Dyslexicphish]

Great video Sam though I think the bigman AI is only part of the problem. Player movement and player collisions play a huge part in this too. Rondo's defender has a hard time staying with Rondo on every single play. Watch Exum at 2:27 of your video. Rondo completely leaves him because well...idk...he takes too long to change direction I guess?

After that Exum:

• Tries to steal the ball from Gibson a few times completely oblivious to the fact Rondo is cutting
• Gets sucked into a collision animation with Lopez
• Gets stuck on Wade trying to follow Rondo (this is something I've seen in 2k since 2k10 or so)
• Tries deny defense but gets stuck in a back peddle animation long enough for Rondo to get free.
• Gets stuck on Lopez.

I can keep going but you get the point. 2k has a lot to look at on the defensive end.

[psydefx]

thanks for bringing this attention sam, but i do wish you would have done it sooner though. i've been screaming about this since day one along with a few others on here and it blows my mind that it's not being talked about 24/7 with threads flooding the forums. it just goes to show you either how clueless people are about the issue, or how many folks just play the game for the mypark etc experience. no offense to ya'll - just saying.

like sam said, paint defense is completely non-existent. believe it or not, even in the year 2016 where threes are jacked at a ridiculous rate, the game is still played inside-out for the most part. nba 2k17 does not reflect that. the last installment that i can remember where the paint was considered sacred was 2k12 - the collapsing of the defense was perfect in that game... if you drove, you would get mobbed. maybe i'm just old-school in my thinking.

dirk, i know you love to be a contrarian, but you're being bogus to sam and the people that support this issue full-heartedly. you give him your first sentence in praise, and follow it with a "BUT", which to me means forget all of that, this is what i think. you then continue to prop up the paint defense in your next 90% of your post. sure, it's good sometimes, but for the most part it's awful. no disrespect man, just sayin'... it doesn't come off well.

the cluelessness of big men, whether it be a c or pf, combined with the easy spamming of passes into the paint on cuts (as shown in the vid), coupled with erratic, unpredictable behavior from your cpu teammates really tears apart the defensive experience. it in turn ruins the offensive experience because it just forces you to cheese them on the next possession to get those bogus points back. like dirk said, the new defensive additions are great - they really are, but they mean absolutely nothing when the fundamental elements of defense like protecting the paint is completely absent. you don't put flawless diamonds on stainless steel ring, if you will. get the fundamentals right, and THEN build upon it. now i realize it's just a game it's not perfect and yada-yada, but the failure of 2k to acknowledge or fix the issue speaks volumes to me. it's basically, "well, we need an incentive for sim players to buy 2k18 so we'll throw in the fix a year from now." that **** shouldn't fly imo. sometimes as basic is protecting the rim in basketball should be nailed down from the get-go.

shout to to begby and hustle westbrook who i know feel us on this issue and have supported me as i annoyingly keep bringing it up.

on another note, at least to me... this game would be absolutely beautiful is this issue were fixed. but something as substanital as this really grinds my gears. don't let anyone fool you - this CAN be patched. whether or not 2k has the resources or priority to do it is a whole other thing.

a couple of more pieces of evidence to help this thread along: