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2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

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Old 12-13-2016, 05:29 AM   #25
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

not on my end. maybe his sliders are messed lol.
I don't mean 2k17 is great though.
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Old 12-13-2016, 05:51 AM   #26
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smirkin Dirk
Sam I think your video is very helpful and will ultimately help to improve the game.

But allow me to provide a counterpoint. You've found a play the CPU cannot defend. We will keep finding them for years to come. This does not invalidate the game's defensive underpinnings.

By pure coincidence I played the Jazz in my MyLeague game last night. Here are 3 occasions when Jazz bigs smartly played off their men to protect the rim.



Im sure you'll recall a couple of years ago when shotblocking was nearly completely absent from 2K.

We're 2 years into a project which is already showing off AI offensive and defensive decision making which has never been done in a sports video game. OG himself will tell you how far they've got to go.

At the moment, the AI is good at making the first decision. Whether it be a double, a switch, a rotation or whatever. The big area for improvement for 2K's defense is nailing those decisions that occur after the 1st one. Ive been banging on about how nobody rotates after a double has occured even 1 pass away. Im sure that will be dripfed in as ACE is developed.

The project of getting 5 guys to play on a string is multi-multi-multi year project. You've shown that the CPU is not able to adjust to certain plays in sets. The CPU does have interior defense; it's not broken.

A user who runs a realistic variety of plays in different sets will see a defense which does have some weaknesses, but also makes excellent reads and adapts often.
Everyone's got their own opinion, and I respect that..but I watched your video and the only reason the CPU helped was because their man was already under the rim. 2k's solution to help the CPU defense is to make them play god tier On-Ball defense and to pick off every pass like Ed Reed. That's not enjoyable basketball. He took the time to make a great video and you try to shoot it down? I just don't get it man. The evidence is too clear.
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Old 12-13-2016, 06:14 AM   #27
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsfan4life
Everyone's got their own opinion, and I respect that..but I watched your video and the only reason the CPU helped was because their man was already under the rim. 2k's solution to help the CPU defense is to make them play god tier On-Ball defense and to pick off every pass like Ed Reed. That's not enjoyable basketball. He took the time to make a great video and you try to shoot it down? I just don't get it man. The evidence is too clear.
Sam has found an exploit. That's not shooting it down.It clearly shows a weakness in the AI defensive system. I've posted plenty of videos where the CPU plays smart defense. I've shown how ACE leads to AI choices that have intelligence not replicated in any sports game. Nobody is claiming the defense (or any part of the game, for that matter) is where it needs to be; it's not.

But the notion that the defense is 'broken' is just nonsense.

This forum does not act as a validation of all that you dislike about the game. It's a discussion forum. If people think only negative posts are welcome, you will become frustrated.
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Old 12-13-2016, 06:55 AM   #28
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Finally a YouTuber using his audience to address legitimate legacy issues with the game that have been problematic for years instead of yelling at the screen about pulling a card from a MyTeam pack.

Well done, Sam.

The way we have to CONSTANTLY switch between players on defense and manually move them back into position despite manually setting defensive adjustments EVERY. SINGLE. PLAY. and then can be beaten by manual cuts and interior paint spam just shows fundamental flaws and a distinct imbalance in the favour of offense vs. defense.

Add in the ridiculously high percentages of 3 pointers for even mediocre shooters when open and you've got an unwinnable situation against someone willing to cheese and exploit it.
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:21 AM   #29
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Dirk you got some serious issues! The video shows what needs to be address and you just hating on the guy who is trying to fix the game by giving clear evidence.
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:37 AM   #30
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Am I not speaking English?

Of course the video showed a weakness in CPU defense. My point is that finding an exploit doesnt invalidate all the improvement in AI defensive strategy and decision making.

How can I make my point any clearer?

Interestingly, running offball cuts was touted as a glorious offensive strategy last year. Or, in YT parlance, a 'money play'. Now, it's evidence that the game is fatally flawed.

I'm confused.

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Old 12-13-2016, 07:37 AM   #31
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

1. The man guarding rondo, nor the off ball bigs defend the cuts properly. Its a 50/50 problem.

2. Every big should not be able to throw perfect passes to the cutter. Devalues a player like Horford when you can run an offense thru any big from the high post.


3. The big guarding the passer should be allowed to keep his hands up to prevent the over the head pass. IRL when Gobert extends his arms upwards it would shut down that passing lane and require a more difficult passing angle that few bigs could get a pass through. 2k12 allowed you to hold your hands up and deflect passes thrown. The steal or give up a layup requirement on defending paint passes kills the defensive integrity.


4. They have to untether the passes. Every NBA player shouldnt be able to catch passes that are coming from behind him and finish that quidkly on a consistent basis. IRL every guy is not as effective off cuts as Klay, Bron, or Leonard. I am a Hawks fan and 3/4ths of our team cant cut, catch and finish fluidly. Hands rating Placebo? Should they add a catch in traffic rating?
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:41 AM   #32
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Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Don't know how feasible it is but I think the game could benefit tremendously from a sort of "vision cone" for defenders. To simulate what they see, not programmed to do. It doesn't have to be visible (maybe it could be toggled like the hotspots). This would give players more situational awareness. Take Lyles in that play. Hes looking right at Rondo driving and he does nothing. Great defenders could have a larger cone because they're processing more whilst poor defenders have a smaller one.
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