I don't think Defensive Stopper works the way it's supposed to work

[Leasim96]

I love seeing this thread have activity from other lockdowns - i'd love for some of you to answer these questions.

Did you feel a nerf?. When?.

How often do you feel like you get scored on unjustly?.

What are your opinions on LDD badges compared to other builds?. Any positive/negative experiences with your badges?. Rate of misses/steals/blocks/charges etc.

Opinions on there being a draw foul stat but not an avoid foul/Foul IQ?. Should avoiding fouls be skill based - yet drawing fouls allowed to be a bail out though stats?.

Thoughts on how effective you feel compared to other builds?. Ease of play?.

Thoughts on game speed/delay? - should LDD have less "quick sand" movement?.

And lastly, thoughts on LDD for 2k18? - should it be removed? - or rebalanced?. Any Worries that they might get it wrong in 2k18 again?.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts - whenever they might be.

[Leasim96]

Some posts on LDD efficiency

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-too-much.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA2k/comme...BF&sh=0e959416

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDRtDm97xwk

[ILLSmak]

The reason LDD is weaker is because in 2k, any player is a defensive force if they are in the right position. This is just not true in real basketball. People contest differently, people's contact inside means different things. So, if you drive on a stretch player, you should be able to just body them out of the way and lay it up. But since, overall (some differences) the body contact both results in a miss, it makes the LDD all about steals and blocks. Remember auto-strip animations? It would be better to give LDD some of them. Like if you tried to drive and bumped into someone, often it would poke the ball back.

There needs to be some bonus for stopping someone's cross over. Like if someone crosses over/spins into you, you should have an advantage for being there. The other way would be like NBA street and add triggered 'snatch' animations when you know someone is gonna do a move.

So, fundamentally LDD is flawed. It can still play well. I have a friend who at park is wet w/ his LDD, even out to 3. I think he's a small SG. I don't think he even put any points into 3. The main good thing about LDD is speed without ball, the rest doesn't really matter, imo. Cuz even if you can take the ball from someone else, they can take the ball from you just as easily.

Since, as someone said in the dribble drive thread, getting past someone is more about getting a tiny step and then sealing them, it should be actually harder to get that on a LDD. Again, the 'body/zone of control' of the LDD is mostly the same, which is the flaw. It's just you can 'steal better' or 'block better.'

But yea I stopped playing 2k again awhile ago. haha. Just throwing some thoughts.

-Smak

[Thunderhorse]

Quote: Originally Posted by ILLSmak

The reason LDD is weaker is because in 2k, any player is a defensive force if they are in the right position. This is just not true in real basketball. People contest differently, people's contact inside means different things. So, if you drive on a stretch player, you should be able to just body them out of the way and lay it up. But since, overall (some differences) the body contact both results in a miss, it makes the LDD all about steals and blocks. Remember auto-strip animations? It would be better to give LDD some of them. Like if you tried to drive and bumped into someone, often it would poke the ball back. There needs to be some bonus for stopping someone's cross over. Like if someone crosses over/spins into you, you should have an advantage for being there. The other way would be like NBA street and add triggered 'snatch' animations when you know someone is gonna do a move. So, fundamentally LDD is flawed. It can still play well. I have a friend who at park is wet w/ his LDD, even out to 3. I think he's a small SG. I don't think he even put any points into 3. The main good thing about LDD is speed without ball, the rest doesn't really matter, imo. Cuz even if you can take the ball from someone else, they can take the ball from you just as easily. Since, as someone said in the dribble drive thread, getting past someone is more about getting a tiny step and then sealing them, it should be actually harder to get that on a LDD. Again, the 'body/zone of control' of the LDD is mostly the same, which is the flaw. It's just you can 'steal better' or 'block better.' But yea I stopped playing 2k again awhile ago. haha. Just throwing some thoughts. -Smak

I stopped playing in February. This is probably the earliest I have stopped playing the game in three years. Other games are coming out that are good and I've found it's more pleasurable to invest my time into those.

My LDD PG started out as my best player. I had previously created a 6'11 Post Scoring Center, (I thought I would still be big enough to bully smaller players but have the agility and speed to compete against real bigs. I could not have been more wrong.), and he was Garbage.

My LDD PG feels broken. I can get blocks straight up but chasedown artist is useless. I've got a better chance of sprinting and trying to just cut the guy off and stand in front of him than I do of actually getting the chasedown block. This is especially ******** because I now have a 7'3 Glass Cleaner and a 7'1 Post Scorer both get chasedown blocks much more efficiently and effectively than my actual LDD. With a bronze level Rim Protector, I feel no real difference in my ability to block with my LDD than I do with my post scorers or glass cleaners.

I don't even really get the Defensive Stopper badge. I've watched my LDD PG who is supposed to be an actual athlete lose his ankles more than my 3 year old trying to chase my dogs.

My LDD lacks the ability to effectively cut off the dribble. I suspect this is because he is a PG, and I primarily find myself guarding playmakers. I can literally do nothing with a playmaker. I cannot steal the ball, I cannot cut off their dribble - when I do manage to stick to the guy, and he eventually slides off because he is spamming whatever dribble move, I never get the chasedown block even when I'm in position to do so. This has made the game unplayable for me because I have none of these problems with my 7'1 Center. I just cannot accept that my 7'1 Post Scorer is somehow a better on ball defender than my lockdown defender.

My LDD usually only contributes in transition. He is an offensive liability and only effective as the 2nd or 3rd option. I can try to carry offensively, and sometimes it will work because the archetype is rather athletic, but while it takes perfect controller input for my LDD to actually cut off the ball handler my opponents never have to go through that (neither do I when I choose my other archetypes).

The game lacks the balance it is trying to simulate and the experience this year has simply been underwhelming in relation to the last two titles. I've boycotted Madden for years, even though Football has been the passion of my life. If EA figures out some form of Team Play, I'm hard pressed to delude myself into thinking 2K is the only sport game worthy of my PS4.

[GSW]

I agree with everything in this thread.

Having a archetype like LDD not being able to be effective because essentially every player is a LDD made the game not fun (for me).

Maybe next year.

[Leasim96]

Quote: Originally Posted by ILLSmak

The reason LDD is weaker is because in 2k, any player is a defensive force if they are in the right position. This is just not true in real basketball. People contest differently, people's contact inside means different things. So, if you drive on a stretch player, you should be able to just body them out of the way and lay it up. But since, overall (some differences) the body contact both results in a miss, it makes the LDD all about steals and blocks. Remember auto-strip animations? It would be better to give LDD some of them. Like if you tried to drive and bumped into someone, often it would poke the ball back. There needs to be some bonus for stopping someone's cross over. Like if someone crosses over/spins into you, you should have an advantage for being there. The other way would be like NBA street and add triggered 'snatch' animations when you know someone is gonna do a move. So, fundamentally LDD is flawed. It can still play well. I have a friend who at park is wet w/ his LDD, even out to 3. I think he's a small SG. I don't think he even put any points into 3. The main good thing about LDD is speed without ball, the rest doesn't really matter, imo. Cuz even if you can take the ball from someone else, they can take the ball from you just as easily. Since, as someone said in the dribble drive thread, getting past someone is more about getting a tiny step and then sealing them, it should be actually harder to get that on a LDD. Again, the 'body/zone of control' of the LDD is mostly the same, which is the flaw. It's just you can 'steal better' or 'block better.' But yea I stopped playing 2k again awhile ago. haha. Just throwing some thoughts. -Smak

This is a great comment - what your essentially saying is that better defensive stats - more strenghth etc - doesn't apply enough in terms of animations that differentiate a lockdown/players with lack of stats on these areas - from others. That there needs to be more depth to defense - not just contest/be close to the player and that's it. I agree - although it would be more simple to simply just be fair - and balance the effectiveness of the build compared to others.

Offensive builds are totally easier to play than a lockdown - as they get bailed out by stats/badges a lot compared to lockdowns. Defense in general is way more situational. If you can't be a threat consistently on defense - you're not that useful compared to other builds.

Sadly 2k is about arcade style gameplay - it comes down to being fair and giving lockdowns what their name implies.

It's like this - say that lockdowns were easier to use and would consistently lockdown one player - and help on off ball defense with more success than others. But of course their offense is primarily athleticism.

You put say a full team of offensive players - agaisn't a lockdown team.

If the lockdowns are as effective as the name implies - then it would be hard for the offensive team to score - but it would be the same for lockdowns.

So it comes down to actual skill/IQ to score. And that would be interesting.

Seeing people break ankles / posterize / shoot over people / shoot from almost half court / almost every single game. Without much effort. Is not fun. Which is why lockdowns should be as strong as their name implies. Right now is way too situational compared to other builds.

[ZBoo50]

Quote: Originally Posted by Leasim96

Some posts on LDD efficiency http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-too-much.html https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA2k/comme...BF&sh=0e959416 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDRtDm97xwk

Here we can see LDD s are not the main issue, "defense" in the game is. Its broken, far away from 2k16 defense. Does not reward good players as advertised last summer. OS should talk this to 2K whenever their meeting will be...

[Rockie_Fresh88]

My thing is when a playmaker has their grand badge it's almost impossible to strip the ball or intercept their passes.

Sharpshooters barely miss. Slashers finish everything. Glasss cleaners grab every board. Yet the LDD can still get crossed , dunked on , and shot on with their grand badge.