13pts Online = 30 point game

[sk8board]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

2k18 would do well to consider that 2K online games are less than half of an NBA game, they're a scaled down version, if you will. As such the stats will be skewed as well. Its the same reason we dont see guys drop 30 hardly ever...30pts in an online game with 5 minute quarters would be 72pts with 12 min quarters. 13pts in an online game is the equivalent of a 30pt game. this is why things like 10 steal/block games simply cant be happening...thats basically a 25 steal/block game. I dont have to remind you guys why gameplay needs to account for realistic stats. When players like D. Rose gets 2 blocks its not two...its closer to 5. Gameplay has to keep this kind scaling in mind when it comes to low percentage shots as well. Ben Simmons/Julius Randle and other players with low 3pt ratings should rarely get 3pt "makes" in a scaled down game...those guys are OPEN FOR A REASON. One 3pter is the equivalent of making almost 3 triples in a full game. We cant scheme to guys weaknesses if the game is gonna reward poor shooters with "makes" at a rate that is much too high.

According to 2k they CAN happen. If you've played MyTeam before they you get challenges like grab 10 offensive rebounds or 8 blocks with one player, etc.

2k is a basketball sim so it has to be realistic.

[Kushmir]

I too, love sarcasm. *wink*

[ffaacc03]

I think you are undervalueing a lot the user influence factor as well as putting too much weight on 2k to try and remedy the hugely wide range of results that come along with such unpredictable variable.

As much stats as we may have at our disposal, this is a very complex and very subjective matter. Not saying that gameplay cant be altered to try and reduce or increase recurrence in some areas, but, aside that there are many variables that a videogame cant factor in, in respect of real life, again, the user skill gap nowdays is way more wide than it used to be 10 years ago and gameplay alters can only account for so much, without braking the feeling and perception of many.

[Kushmir]

Dont disagree with anything you've said here. its super complex and only the programmers have access to the global data i'm referring to. but its the reason I play online and make very few adjustments because I want to see what the game plays like for the casual user.

Steals/Reaching is a legacy issue and finding the correct balance isn't easy. but i'll continue to advocate for balancing the game for the elite user....if you tune your game so the casual player can get 2 steals a game the advanced guy will break your game and get 10.

The obvious fouls need to be whistled and 1) steals/blocks success must be based on good timing 2) must have more negative outcomes 3) be scaled to 5 min qtrs and 4) need a better ratio of fouls to success. at the same time spam has to be eliminated...punish users with negative outcomes (even if its just horrible defensive position) when they fail.

you've been here long enough to remember when 2K hard-coded FG% (still the best design decision to date) nothing but great shots will still put you in the 50-60% range. this improved gameplay immensely--providing more of a simulation experience....finally getting steals/blocks under control will do the same.

P.S. I understand we need a way to aggressively challenge shots (IMO the right stick is perfect for this) to provide a middle ground and i'm advocating for that as well.

[infemous]

I really like how you provide evidence for your points.

I made a post about how in Pro-Am bad play is not negatively impacted in Team-Mate grade, or not quickly enough, and I feel this stems from some of the imbalances found in the basic fundamentals of the gameplay.

You raise a really valid point.

I think starting a game in the 3rd quarter with the game tied would be stupid tho. No one would like that. It would be great as an option, but would be very unpopular.

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by infemous

I really like how you provide evidence for your points. I made a post about how in Pro-Am bad play is not negatively impacted in Team-Mate grade, or not quickly enough, and I feel this stems from some of the imbalances found in the basic fundamentals of the gameplay. You raise a really valid point. I think starting a game in the 3rd quarter with the game tied would be stupid tho. No one would like that. It would be great as an option, but would be very unpopular.

Thanks...but i'm only pointing out what most of us already know. And yup, visual aids really help bring it home lol. and you're right, imbalances in the game's foundation affect an awful lot.

Here's another example of how hand-holding hurts the game. In reality, missed steals cost you because of 1) fouls 2) you're beat and create a 5 on 4 situation. Here Rubio misses the steal...(please note there's virtually no chance of a foul being called) but because bumping up the floor (from behind, no less) isn't a foul in 2K17 (ridiculous in and of itself) getting beat doesn't hurt him because even though I should be able to beat him up the floor "lack of reasonable fouls" gameplay prevents it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvmgfq4983c

Next he's able to strip the ball from Okafor preventing a score, which is a play i'm fine with except he's avoided no less than 3 fouls...where's the downside to the risky behavior? just what does it take for a foul to be called? where are the necessary negative outcomes that discourage spam? Gameplay balance dictates there have to be risks outcomes if there are rewards. If not? you destroy balance.

[Kushmir]

Just to add on to how bad it is:

Same game...scored is tied late. Rubio makes a bad pass and it results in a turnover, no matter tho...because steals are All-Reward/Little risk in 2K17. He immediately button mashes for an on-ball steal...and surprise! he gets it! (who would've guessed) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H0DbIe_XbI

Steals aren't a bad thing. But the frequency, lack of risk and huge window for success that exist in 2K17 related to them is embarrassing.

[infemous]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Thanks...but i'm only pointing out what most of us already know. And yup, visual aids really help bring it home lol. and you're right, imbalances in the game's foundation affect an awful lot. Here's another example of how hand-holding hurts the game. In reality, missed steals cost you because of 1) fouls 2) you're beat and create a 5 on 4 situation. Here Rubio misses the steal...(please note there's virtually no chance of a foul being called) but because bumping up the floor (from behind, no less) isn't a foul in 2K17 (ridiculous in and of itself) getting beat doesn't hurt him because even though I should be able to beat him up the floor "lack of reasonable fouls" gameplay prevents it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvmgfq4983c Next he's able to strip the ball from Okafor preventing a score, which is a play i'm fine with except he's avoided no less than 3 fouls...where's the downside to the risky behavior? Gameplay balance dictates there have to be negative outcomes if there are positive ones. If not? you encourage spam.

PREACH.

Its funny coz after I read this thread I played a MyTeam game against a guy who had a 90+ over Kawhi and Kawhi had 6 personal steals and his team had 12. I think only one of them was from me trying a long pass cross court.

Dude was literally spamming steal as soon as I crossed half court and I didn't get to the bonus once.

From that I was done with that mode, only playing PNO and Pro Am.