13pts Online = 30 point game

[Kushmir]

2k18 would do well to consider that 2K online games are less than half of an NBA game, they're a scaled down version, if you will. As such the stats will be skewed as well. Its the same reason we dont see guys drop 30 hardly ever...30pts in an online game with 5 minute quarters would be 72pts with 12 min quarters. 13pts in an online game is the equivalent of a 30pt game.

this is why things like 10 steal/block games simply cant be happening...thats basically a 25 steal/block game. I dont have to remind you guys why gameplay needs to account for realistic stats. When players like D. Rose gets 2 blocks its not two...its closer to 5. Gameplay has to keep this kind scaling in mind when it comes to low percentage shots as well. Ben Simmons/Julius Randle and other players with low 3pt ratings should rarely get 3pt "makes" in a scaled down game...those guys are OPEN FOR A REASON. One 3pter is the equivalent of making almost 3 triples in a full game. We cant scheme to guys weaknesses if the game is gonna reward poor shooters with "makes" at a rate that is much too high.

[bakesalee]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

Cool idea.

I also really like the idea of the online games starting tied in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

The games that start after half would be nearly the same as current games. The games starting in the 4th would be addictive, quick, but not overly so. I'd love that second option, and I imagine I'd play even longer per sitting. You can't start another game when you're debating whether to go to sleep, as you know it's a 30 or 40-minute commitment.

[DC]

Re: Scaling is Important: 13pts Online = 30 point game

I feel your pain but I offer this question.

While the success rate of steals/blocks are very high considering we are only playing 5 minute quarters; but you also have to take into consideration users ATTEMPT a FAR GREATER number of steals/blocks when compared to real life players.

So naturally, there will/should be a higher number of steals/blocks just based on sheer number being attempted.

[Kushmir]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

I'm ok with 20 minute games but I see where you're going....It would screw with my head a little too much but created games could definitely have that kind of functionality.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

I disagree. If someone is being careless with the ball then they deserve to get the ball stolen. I hate the idea of them nerfing things like shot blocking and steals just to keep up with the pace of real life games. 2K players (at least the online ones) play at a way faster pace than real life NBA teams. I normally score around 60-80 points a game.(PNO and MT). If you're going to play at a pace like that then steal and block attempts will be naturally higher as well.

[Kushmir]

Re: Scaling is Important: 13pts Online = 30 point game

I feel your pain but I offer this question.

While the success rate of steals/blocks are very high considering we are only playing 5 minute quarters; but you also have to take into consideration users ATTEMPT a FAR GREATER number of steals/blocks when compared to real life players.

So naturally, there will/should be a higher number of steals/blocks just based on sheer number being attempted.

Oh for sure...and great point DC.

But that "babysitting" is part of the problem IMO...there's simply too big a window for steal/block success. And you can't blame the players...they're doing what works. Its like the game is scared to call fouls or punish people with horrible defensive position after an unsuccessful steal/block attempt. The success ratio is frankly...HORRIBLE. consider that the league leader for blocks the last 5 years in the NBA averaged 3.7, 3, 2.8, 2.9, 3.7, 2.5. The steals leader averaged 2.5, 2.4, 2.5, 2.3, 2.1 and 2.1.

Thats not very many...average players should be seeing ratios of about 3 unsuccessful attempts for every successful steal/block. how many of those misses are fouls is up for debate but it should be alot more than it is now. think about it: you have good block timing you get a block right? you have good steal timing it attacks the ball like in this clip right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1yPUEVTdmw

lol so why do horrible block or steal timing make you miss the ball completely?...thats horrible balance and encourages spam. stop protecting players for making bad choices. horrible block/steal timing should see fouls the majority of the time. gameplay also makes the cardinal sin of letting "attempts" reward the defense....a reward for failing? where they do that at?

Case in point: this guy spams steal and it rides my SG out to the perimeter and forces him to pick up his dribble. scary part? he doesn't even steal the ball...but he doesn't have to because just the attempt is rewarding him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwPCbEeg89A

CAN. NOT. HAPPEN. Blocks and Steals have to be a Zero Sum Game. Either 1) you're successful 2) you miss and are now in terrible defensive position or 3) you commit a foul. No tertiary rewards for spam....the hand-holding is hurting the game.

Short Version: there are more attempts because the game rewards spam...punish it realistically and the attempts go down.

[Kushmir]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

I disagree. If someone is being careless with the ball then they deserve to get the ball stolen. I hate the idea of them nerfing things like shot blocking and steals just to keep up with the pace of real life games. 2K players (at least the online ones) play at a way faster pace than real life NBA teams. I normally score around 60-80 points a game.(PNO and MT). If you're going to play at a pace like that then steal and block attempts will be naturally higher as well.

actually thats incorrect....even with high pace games you'll see less than 60 possessions. kindly refer to how many an average NBA game has. Now ask yourself how many 20 steal or block games you've had in the NBA the last decade--and yessir...I will wait.

No one's saying guys wont have a high number of steals if they pass the ball carelessly, but just straight up swiping the ball 10 times without a disproportionate amount of foul calls and whiffs? NAH. you're living in a dream, world, NEO.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Scaling is Important: 13pts Online = 30 point game

A little goose and gander: what's your take on fouls in relation to reality versus online? How much is 1 online foul worth in reality? Rebounding?

Essentially, what are the averages we should be seeing on all global online team stats? I'd like to see a broader vision of how these definitions would play out on the appropriate scale.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

[Kushmir]

Re: Scaling is Important: 13pts Online = 30 point game

A little goose and gander: what's your take on fouls in relation to reality versus online? How much is 1 online foul worth in reality? Rebounding?

Essentially, what are the averages we should be seeing on all global online team stats? I'd like to see a broader vision of how these definitions would play out on the appropriate scale.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

I don't have the data, but IMO (which i'll admit is completely anecdotal) i'd like to see more fouls called especially of the rebounding (loose ball) off-ball (grabbing and holding) variety...the obvious physical contact like this as well. Obvious fouls still aren't getting called so they have lots of work to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U6V2gifYPI

that's the easiest call in the game.

the grabbing animation from behind has to be a foul 100% of the time as well.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

actually thats incorrect....even with high pace games you'll see less than 60 possessions. kindly refer to how many an average NBA game has. Now ask yourself how many 20 steal or block games you've had in the NBA the last decade--and yessir...i'll wait.

No one's saying guys wont have a high number of steals if they pass the ball carelessly, but just straight up swiping the ball 10 times without a disproportionate amount of foul calls and whiffs? NAH. you're living in a dream, world, NEO.

You mean Field Goal Attempts right? Because I'm sure you know the average game in 2K has way more than 60 possessions right?

An average NBA game has 85 FGA so going by your logic, if we scale up that less than 60 possession estimate (let's say 55 FGA) into 12 minute quarters that's about 120 FGA per game in 12 minute quarters.

Looks high paced to me but that's besides the point though. Your whole thought process of just multiplying everything in proportion to real life NBA games is ridiculous. It doesn't take into account the fact that games in 2K are played differently than in real life. You can't expect the kids that play 2K to have the same play style as the real life professional basketball clubs.

[Kushmir]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

You mean Field Goal Attempts right? Because I'm sure you know the average game in 2K has way more than 60 possessions right?

An average NBA game has 85 FGA so going by your logic, if we scale up that less than 60 possession estimate (let's say 55 FGA) into 12 minute quarters that's about 120 FGA per game in 12 minute quarters.

Looks high paced to me but that's besides the point though. Your whole thought process of just multiplying everything in proportion to real life NBA games is ridiculous. It doesn't take into account the fact that games in 2K are played differently than in real life. You can't expect the kids that play 2K to have the same play style as the real life professional basketball clubs.

we're not multiplying anything...the game is scaled for 5 minute quarters. stats have to correspond to this....if we're getting numbers that equal or exceed what we see in 48 minute games something is seriously out of wack. Imagine if we were seeing NBA scores in 5 min quaters...we'd have to take a look at why FG% was too high among other things. the argument isnt new...we heard the same whining when 2K hardcoded realistic FG%. "if I take nothing but good shots I should should shoot 90% from the field like I did in 2K4."

again.....NO. realistic sim gameplay comes first. the steal/block attempts are too high because 1) the window for success is too high 2) the risk/downside is low and 3) the game needs a middle ground to aggressively challenge shots without fouling.

I get that the arcade thing appeals to some but a better game resembles the NBA where defense is more positioning and "make the shot harder" and less blocks and steals. keep in mind i'm not coming at you...we just disagree.

[BA2929]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

actually thats incorrect....even with high pace games you'll see less than 60 possessions. kindly refer to how many an average NBA game has.Now ask yourself how many 20 steal or block games you've had in the NBA the last decade--and yessir...I will wait.

No one's saying guys wont have a high number of steals if they pass the ball carelessly, but just straight up swiping the ball 10 times without a disproportionate amount of foul calls and whiffs? NAH. you're living in a dream, world, NEO.

The reason why you don't see 20 steal or block games in the NBA is because they're going up against the best talent in the world. That isn't the case online in a video game. Sometimes you'll go up against a scrub and you can get that 20 steal game. You don't think LeBron or Steph could get 20 steals or blocks against a high school team without fouling out? That's the type of equivalency you're getting online sometimes. Compare your online 2k game to the 2017 NBA All-Star game. That's what you should be expecting.

Plus, you also have to refer back to the "fun factor". 95% of the people who play this game online do not care whatsoever about stats that mirror the NBA. They want their 20 point/20 board game with Giannis in a game and think that's fun.

In addition to all this, you have people online who are trying to size up everyone or taking stupid shots, which leaves you in position to steal or block the ball on numerous occasions. This just doesn't happen in the actual NBA. Also, nobody wants their online game ruined by excessive foul calls. It's just not fun to take 40-50 foul shots in a 5 minute quarter game, thus the foul frequency is most likely tuned down.

I understand you guys want "realistic stats" online and that's awesome. But you have to realize you are in the slim minority here in terms of the audience for this game. I suggest you just try and play custom games if you want those hyper-realistic stats.

[Kushmir]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

The reason why you don't see 20 steal or block games in the NBA is because they're going up against the best talent in the world. That isn't the case online in a video game. Sometimes you'll go up against a scrub and you can get that 20 steal game. You don't think LeBron or Steph could get 20 steals or blocks against a high school team without fouling out? That's the type of equivalency you're getting online sometimes.

Plus, you also have to refer back to the "fun factor". 95% of the people who play this game online do not care whatsoever about stats that mirror the NBA. They want their 20 point/20 board game with Giannis in a game and think that's fun.

In addition to all this, you have people online who are trying to size up everyone or taking stupid shots, which leaves you in position to steal or block the ball on numerous occasions. This just doesn't happen in the actual NBA. Also, nobody wants their online game ruined by excessive foul calls. It's just not fun to take 40-50 foul shots in a 5 minute quarter game, thus the foul frequency is most likely tuned down.

I understand you guys want "realistic stats" online and that's awesome. But you have to realize you are in the slim minority here in terms of the audience for this game. I suggest you just try and play custom games if you want those hyper-realistic stats.

the "total scrub" thing is rare....sure you're going to see horrible players sometimes but most people are pretty close in skill. Lebron vs a high school kid isn't an accurate analogy at all.

[nobody17929]

Re: 13pts Online = 30 point game

the "total scrub" thing is rare....sure you're going to see horrible players sometimes but most people are pretty close in skill. Lebron vs a high school kid isn't an accurate analogy at all.

I'll say this. I ran park today with 2 randoms. We beat a team of 3 randoms 22-8 they were terrible. I did not take a screenshot but my point guard forced about 7 steals off his matchup. He kept doin the behind the back dribble while my teammate was in perfect position.

[mexxelektrik]

Re: Scaling is Important: 13pts Online = 30 point game

A little goose and gander: what's your take on fouls in relation to reality versus online? How much is 1 online foul worth in reality?

Actually fouls are not scaled in any aspect or at least it doesn't matter since foul limits are the same as in a regular NBA game. It's nearly impossible to foul a player out or to get over the foul limit before the last 2min. To me this is the main reason people are going for steals all the time. Too often it's not a real risk/reward situation since there is basically no or way too little risk.