Dribble drives are almost next to impossible

[VDusen04]

Man, I don't know...

I can't remember the last time I feel like I've had to fight an NBA 2K game as much as this one. More times than not I can succeed, but it doesn't often feel like fair basketball success.

I just finished a 2000 Raptors vs. 1998 Jazz matchup and at the outset, things sort of felt okay. I still wasn't getting much off of one-on-one dribble moves (let alone triple threat) but cleaning the defensive boards, getting some secondary fast break opportunities, and working inside out (feeding Antonio Davis and hitting cutters or spotters) felt somewhat natural.

Then there just seemed to be a point where the game literally changed. I know it's been a running joke for years, but is comeback logic or statistical boosts or something that alters gameplay a thing in 2K17? I built a 15-point lead in the first half but suddenly in the second half, everything seemed to close up everywhere and the defense stopped giving up anything, at all, anywhere. It was like the defense was playing super tight, but also not at all susceptible to any form of dribble-drive either.

In particular, 35-year-old Jeff Hornacek gave up absolutely nothing when guarding 23-year-old height-of-his-powers Vince Carter in the second half. During that span, Hornacek:

1. Never fell for a pump fake
2. Never moved an inch via jab step
3. Always seemed to catch Carter on fast break opportunities, even if Carter released early in stride
4. Never gave up an edge on an attempted dribble drive
5. Didn't bite on one-on-one iso dribble moves
6. Always closed off what appeared to be an opening into the paint (muscling and bodying Carter back out to the wing)
7. Gave Carter space but also managed to close out and turn every shot into a highly contested one

I've had a lot of dirty wins in 2K17 (most of them, in fact); games where I came away victorious but on the same hand felt kind of gross about it. In this case, I only won because the Jazz offense was stuck on having Bryon Russell run the baseline and shoot threes (insanely open all the time off of baseline screens but shot 9-24, 0-7 from three) and because I found enough ways to unrealistically jam the ball inside to Antonio Davis and Kevin Willis for rushed and awkward 7-foot jumpers. The clincher came on a press break when I just speed passed down the floor for a 36-year-old Charles Oakley breakaway tomahawk.

A lot of the game feels cool (rebounding feels more empowering than ever, same with blocking shots, to name two things of many) but there's certain glaring pieces (like the one-on-one play) that seem to have moved further away from real basketball and closer to playing a video game.

Lastly, for the love of all that is holy, is there any reason at all why I can watch Bryon Russell utilizing a double screen on the baseline, recognize he's going to pop out to the right wing for a catch-and-shoot like he has 15 times already, read it with Vince Carter at the top of the key, balance myself and jump directly into the passing lane, then press the steal button only for Carter to execute some kind of strange reclusive steal animation where he doesn't have any interest at all in extending his arms, instead opting for some weird mini-hop where both arms t-rex a little while displaying zero ball awareness whatsover, leading to yet another wide-open jumper?

I'm guessing there's some kind of steal nerfing thing that was added on account of player-vs.-player online abuse in past years or something. The scapegoat in me wonders if a lot of these issues (steals, one-on-one play) are all largely associated with online fixes that end up creating problems for folks seeking authenticity who play regular modes. Or maybe those two things are completely unrelated. But I can say that this game can often be an exercise in frustration when it comes to trying to play real basketball for an entire contest.

[NINJAK2]

Great post VD. I feel your pain. 2k seems to base everything they do off of the online community. Ever since the introduction of VC 2k seems to be hell bent on monetizing the hell out of this game focusing on things they can charge us for (myteam cards, myplayer gear, etc) rather than fixing it's legacy issues. I have no doubt that OG,Czar, Wang, etc want to make the truest sim they can but I think they are being somewhat hampered by the 2k bosses in regards to what is priority. I've been saying for awhile that this title needs to take 1 year off to really flesh things out. OG's, Wang's, and Czar's ambition combined with their small development window year to year is not helping this game in the long run imo.

[MarkWilliam]

Quote: Originally Posted by VDusen04

The scapegoat in me wonders if a lot of these issues (steals, one-on-one play) are all largely associated with online fixes that end up creating problems for folks seeking authenticity who play regular modes.

Man, I enjoyed your entire post.

But this snippet really got me. Couldn't help myself - I have had these thoughts for a long time. All we can do is speculate of course but, yes..... can't help but wonder. As a "regular mode" player I really can't help but wonder....

I know you posted more after that and I apologize if you don't like the fact that I trimmed your post. But your words here were too strong IMO that I just had to separate them. Hope that's ok.

[JoFri]

Quote: Originally Posted by VDusen04

In this case, I only won because the Jazz offense was stuck on having Bryon Russell run the baseline and shoot threes

Bryon Russell in 2K?

Jus to add on, dribble drive without help of screen is near impossible esp when my stick skills is so-so only.

I do observe a few tricks, like many posters shared - less spamming of turbo can lessen the cpu defenders stickiness to the ball handler. A lot of times when running on a break i'll have the wing to dribble without turbo towards the baseline (not towards the rim) and pull-up jumper (u will see the defender sag towards the paint and hence, lots of opportunity for open shot).

If not, perform a simple crossover with lots of space between the ball handler and the defender running back on defense, and ensure the change of direction is really like "perpendicular" to the baseline (this is to trick the cpu as if i want to dribble towards the sideline). My success rate this of doing so is extremely low, to be frank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Does anybody else think this problem isn't THAT bad..I mean the way it plays out is horrible at times but it seems to me that it's just a case of a bad set of animations. I think they have bad sizeup animations that don't really do their job. To me the sizeups take up so much space and are so elaborate that it's hard to capitalize on opportunities that the defender gives, or maybe it isn't so much so that they are too long, but that they are unbreakable. So you as a ballhandler are stuck in an animation while the defender is moving freely, which leads to unrealistic cutoffs. It seems as if the game is being told that the defender got there first solely because he is able to move first.

This would explain why it felt broken after the patches, because they had to make dribbling less branchable. They had to do this because the defense was lagging so far behind that there was an unfair advantage.

I remember czar saying that he was helping out with defensive development in one of his streams/videos, which means they are focusing on defense as a whole for 2k18. And if all of these problems stem from the defense lacking behind as it seems then I think there is reason to be hopeful for 2k18

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoFri

Bryon Russell in 2K?k

Completed classic roster. Can't live my 2K life without it, ha.

[EccentricMeat]

Quote: Originally Posted by de_jesus

If I remember correctly, contact sliders work in opposite. 0 means you are hitting walls, while 100 means you get more contact/hip riding. One of the devs just happened to stop by a thread aand casually drop it some time ago. If someone can back me up, I'd appreciate it if I'm correct. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Maybe in past games but this year if Drive Contact Frequency is 0 you won't get as many hip-ride animations, you'll just either get the brick wall animation OR the defender will watch you go.

I think the main issue is with the physical attribute difference between user and CPU. I set the user speed, strength, acceleration, and lateral quickness about 3 to 5 clicks above the CPU and it makes a huge difference.

For reference I have the Contact and Body-Up sliders all at 100 and dribble drives play out very realistically without nerfing elite defenders. Harden can get past most defenders and ALL bigs, but against an elite perimeter defender like Klay Thompson you'll still have to put in a lot of work.