Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attributes

[Housh123]

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect.


So lets list every attribute that you can have:


Shot close
Shot off dribble mid range
Shot off dribble 3
Standing layup
Driving layup
Standing dunk
Driving dunk
Contact Dunk
Contested shot midrange
Open shot midrange
Contested shot 3
Open shot 3
Post hook
Post fade
Post control
Speed
Strength
Box out
offensive rebound
defensive rebound
box out
Ball control
pass vision
pass IQ
pass accuracy
speed with ball
Lateral quickness
pass perception
block
shot contest
Steal
defensive consistency
on ball IQ
Pick and roll IQ
Help D
Low post IQ
Acceleration
Vertical






Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method.




So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game.


The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018.


The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible.






I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect.


So lets list every attribute that you can have:


Shot close
Shot off dribble mid range
Shot off dribble 3
Standing layup
Driving layup
Standing dunk
Driving dunk
Contact Dunk
Contested shot midrange
Open shot midrange
Contested shot 3
Open shot 3
Post hook
Post fade
Post control
Speed
Strength
Box out
offensive rebound
defensive rebound
box out
Ball control
pass vision
pass IQ
pass accuracy
speed with ball
Lateral quickness
pass perception
block
shot contest
Steal
defensive consistency
on ball IQ
Pick and roll IQ
Help D
Low post IQ
Acceleration
Vertical






Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method.




So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game.


The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018.


The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible.






I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

See people complained about just this, so they made archetypes and now people don't want that. Not the majority of people, but mostly the causals.

[Housh123]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

See people complained about just this, so they made archetypes and now people don't want that. Not the majority of people, but mostly the causals.

The most fun iv had was when MyCareer was MyPlayer in 2k10 when there was no restrictions to what you could become. That game also actually had on ball D so even tho everyone was maxed out if you had stick skills you could kill people.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

The most fun iv had was when MyCareer was MyPlayer in 2k10 when there was no restrictions to what you could become.

This was fine with me too. Then MyPark came along and everything changed.

[awg811]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect.


So lets list every attribute that you can have:


Shot close
Shot off dribble mid range
Shot off dribble 3
Standing layup
Driving layup
Standing dunk
Driving dunk
Contact Dunk
Contested shot midrange
Open shot midrange
Contested shot 3
Open shot 3
Post hook
Post fade
Post control
Speed
Strength
Box out
offensive rebound
defensive rebound
box out
Ball control
pass vision
pass IQ
pass accuracy
speed with ball
Lateral quickness
pass perception
block
shot contest
Steal
defensive consistency
on ball IQ
Pick and roll IQ
Help D
Low post IQ
Acceleration
Vertical






Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method.




So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game.


The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018.


The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible.






I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

They could break apart the upgrade attributes without allowing people to max out each individual attribute.
Things like height, weight, position, and play style could all determine what should be capped and how high.
Similar to how it is now, but you wouldn't have to upgrade off the dribble shots in order to upgrade close shot. What kind of sense does that even make?
You have a center that can't shoot close shots because he can't upgrade his shot off the dribble past a 60 or whatever it is.
Close shots are the bread and butter of nearly every center, but in 2k very few even have the option of being able to hit them.

Breaking apart the attributes would allow for much more diversity.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

I don't see why having individual attributes means there would be no attribute caps lol.

[Dyslexicphish]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

I think a huge hurdle is the fact height still matters so much in 2k. With upgrading individual attributes you're just asking for so called "demigods" to return. I could see guys making myplayers with max height with attribute points just in physical attributes (speed, vertical, acceleration etc) and jump shooting and just utterly breaking the game.

It's all about balance. Predicting every shortcoming of the system is difficult. Predicting how people will take advantage of said shortcomings even more so.

[bottledwaterfan25]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Ok so 2k17 ran on group upgrades. Shooting, rebounding, playmaking ect.


So lets list every attribute that you can have:


Shot close
Shot off dribble mid range
Shot off dribble 3
Standing layup
Driving layup
Standing dunk
Driving dunk
Contact Dunk
Contested shot midrange
Open shot midrange
Contested shot 3
Open shot 3
Post hook
Post fade
Post control
Speed
Strength
Box out
offensive rebound
defensive rebound
box out
Ball control
pass vision
pass IQ
pass accuracy
speed with ball
Lateral quickness
pass perception
block
shot contest
Steal
defensive consistency
on ball IQ
Pick and roll IQ
Help D
Low post IQ
Acceleration
Vertical






Ok so if you could upgrade each attribute individually what ways do you think the 2k community would ruin the game? I know its a weird question to ask but its one the development team should ask themselves before every tweak. Now I am not talking about what kind of combinations could make 1 or 2 players really cheesy. I'm talking about what methods would the community use as a whole that would lead to the game being unenjoyable. I see this upgrade method proposed a lot on this board and I want to really dive into if it truly is a good method.




So off the top Id guess that everyone in the whole game would be able to shoot 3s. This would get annoying fast. Also this would make playing with 12 year old randoms who don't know how to play D unbearable. Can you picture having to guard 5 guys on the court out to the 3pt line. Letting everyone upgrade their 3 to 99 would really hurt the game.


The next thing I want to point out is everyone and their mama would have their steal maxed out. If you think reaching is bad now, picture the individual upgrade system where literally everyone in the game has a 99 steal, block, lateral quickness, and on ball D. If foul logic was not also tweaked to accommodate this change the game could literally be unplayable. They would have to rename the game to NBA 2k ReachFest 2018.


The final thing I want to go over is literally everyone would have 99 speed. This in itself could make the game unplayable. You wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a fast break. Guys could close out to every 3 point attempt. You'd be getting blocked way more. Big men with 99 block, would be getting blocks they realistically shouldn't get, the game would be horrible.






I'm actually for the method of upgrades each attribute on its own but for a system like that to actually work the games logic would have to be completely changed. This system would definitely have to have archetypes that cap people out.

I think that you're making a lot of assumptions there for the absolute worst case scenario. I think that you would be surprised how much variation there would be among users with how they upgrade. You say that everyone would automatically have 99 3 point, 99 speed, 99 steal, but that is assuming that there are zero caps put in place. That is also assuming that each of those categories would have the same upgrade cost as every other category.

I think that with some general caps in place to prevent the pure cheese, that would not be the case. I also think that 2k could have this system of individual upgrades work, if they assign a higher cost to upgrading the most effective categories; meaning that, for example, it costs more of your attribute points to upgrade 3 point, and speed, than it would to upgrade passing accuracy, or boxout stats.

In order for this to work, there would have to be caps put in place to prevent 7'0 tall demigods, and to limit people from being all around gods, maxed in several categories.

What I don't like about the current system in 2k17 is that there is no variety. I think it's a shame that you literally can't even recreate above average real life NBA players. With a system of upgrading individual attributes, I could finally make someone like Joe Ingles for example. Joe Ingles is great at shooting 3's, is a good defender, and also a good playmaker, and passer. He can do a bit of everything, but at the same time he's not athletic. That's just one example of a player I would be able to make if we were not restricted so much. I used this example, because it's a type of player I would love to play with online, someone who is technically very skilled, but at the same time, he's not fast, or athletic, isn't able to throw down dunks, so it wouldn't be overpowered, or a demigod by any means.

To your concern though, I will say that probably the "cheese" builds that would run rampant in the 2k community would probably be some variation of a player that is fast, can shoot 3's, and has a crazy handle or something like that. Which, I can see your point, but at the same time, I literally do not care what others are doing. As long as I can make what I want, I am not afraid of playing anyone else's build, because I know I can counter it based on my own unique skill set. The more freedom we have, the more fun this mode is, and the more variety and uniqueness that is available will really make this mode awesome to play.

[Housh123]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Just because of the ability to upgrade individual attributes doesn't mean they couldn't cap the maximums based on height and position...

Big men can feel free to upgrade their contested 3 if it maxes out at 60 or 70 or so, etc.

Don't know why people act like it has to be an "all or nothing" solution.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Operation Sports mobile app

well that's exactly what we have right now. Didn't change anything

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

One of the biggest issues today is that it costs more today to max out a myplayer to an actual 80something overall (95/96ovr in-game) than it used to be to create a genuine 99.

I started playing mycareer because I wanted (and still want) to recreate my favourite players. People talk about 7ft demi-gods from 2k15 as though they were the best players in the game destroying everyone and they were far from it. Skills and teamplay mattered much more than today's game where glitching animations and speed have taken over. Instead of me wanting to create a KD or an MJ build, we now have players rightfully complaining that they can't even make a Joe Ingles.

The problem in 2k15 came when the 7'2 PG/Center was glitched into existence. Not all 99's are created equal; my pg's with 99 speed were faster than any 7ft SF with a 99 speed, and there was actually a lot of variety of player builds in park, and the park was heaving all year round. Go into a park today and people aren't playing this game nearly half as much as they were at this time of the year on older versions, because people are bored with archetypes and making a new player is such a monotonous chore, that's it's just not any fun to play this game.

I'm sure e-league will be massive for them, and the 100 or so players that will play in it, but where is the fun for everyone else?

[Vroman]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

One of the biggest issues today is that it costs more today to max out a myplayer to an actual 80something overall (95/96ovr in-game) than it used to be to create a genuine 99.

I started playing mycareer because I wanted (and still want) to recreate my favourite players. People talk about 7ft demi-gods from 2k15 as though they were the best players in the game destroying everyone and they were far from it. Skills and teamplay mattered much more than today's game where glitching animations and speed have taken over. Instead of me wanting to create a KD or an MJ build, we now have players rightfully complaining that they can't even make a Joe Ingles.

The problem in 2k15 came when the 7'2 PG/Center was glitched into existence. Not all 99's are created equal; my pg's with 99 speed were faster than any 7ft SF with a 99 speed, and there was actually a lot of variety of player builds in park, and the park was heaving all year round. Go into a park today and people aren't playing this game nearly half as much as they were at this time of the year on older versions, because people are bored with archetypes and making a new player is such a monotonous chore, that's it's just not any fun to play this game.

I'm sure e-league will be massive for them, and the 100 or so players that will play in it, but where is the fun for everyone else?

Sorry but 2k15 park/rec was biggest trash ever. It was more popular because it was still very new game mode to most of ppl and everyone was less critical about it. But 7 foot SF's had literally no flaws on their build and near contested shooting was completely broke with certain releases + gold deadeye badge. It was easiest to pick up and play compared to 2k16/2k17, you could step in with randoms and carry a W alone if you good at game, now u cant do it much because you need to switch on picks or u get destroyed easily.

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Sorry but 2k15 park/rec was biggest trash ever. It was more popular because it was still very new game mode to most of ppl and everyone was less critical about it. But 7 foot SF's had literally no flaws on their build and near contested shooting was completely broke with certain releases + gold deadeye badge. It was easiest to pick up and play compared to 2k16/2k17, you could step in with randoms and carry a W alone if you good at game, now u cant do it much because you need to switch on picks or u get destroyed easily.

It wasn't broke with certain releases and deadeye, it was broke because we saw the start of twitter pressure on the game with the release of the final patch for the game, patch 4! (remember those days?).

Like I said, those 7ft SF's weren't indestructible; I never created one but I played against loads of them and never thought they were far superior to any other player build because how you played the game mattered more than any player build or archetype. Hi 2k17!

7ft Sf's will become like unicorns in 2k lore.

The 7'2 PG glitch screwed the game over though; again, I never created one but 2k had the option to kill those players and what did they do? They put VC on sale so even more players would spend money and create their own.

[ammar_munes]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

in my opinion ,


the game it self is not good anymore , the focus is on park and pro-am, all the only stuff , but not the actual game .


for me I like to play against NBA players not ppl online .


MYplayer year after year is frustrating , arc types don't do their jobs . a slasher cant really drive or slash that good , point forward r playmaker is way better .


Shoot creator was good at some point but ball control is a joke !


LDD not that powerful , meaning any arc type can do his job ! you just need to know how to play D.


Sharp shooter is boring .


Cpu D is ridicules with his GLUE Tactic , I'm not saying you cant beat it but the way you do is not FUN at ALLLLLLLLL!


training is way to long and you have to do it over and over for each player you create .


you cannot select 2nd position for your player frustrating I don't want my 6'9sf to be a sg .


for your player their is never a Primary Role and Secondary Role .




I just hop they give us the ability to model after an NBA Legend .




and the biggest thing ever is to separate Online from Offline , and make the update Optional specially for Shooting Update !!




sorry guys I know I was going off topic and talking to much , it's just I love the game , but year after year twitter and youtube wins the change everything about the game




this year at launch 2k17 was fun , just needed to fix minor things like badges not working and a couple of bugs !

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Separate mycareer from online (park, Pro-Am). Then allow us to upgrade the individual attributes how we see fit. I wanna build my guy the way I want and not be restricted because of a mode I will never touch. If you do it that way nothing can really go wrong. Allow players to either create separate characters for online or upload their characters online but institute your attribute caps there. Offline we have freedom, online you make it as fair as you possibly can.

[superfly85]

Re: Lets pick apart what could go wrong with a system of upgrading individual attribu

Simply do away with online modes. They have hindered every game since it became a thing.