Some Youtubers Help Ruin 2K

[ForeverVersatile]

This new generation of 2K players is so bad smh.

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[Housh123]

With all that said in this thread


90% of the solely one VS one stuff that ppl do in park can be stopped by Just playing smart defense

As a big I can't keep up with ppl when they do side step backs or turbo sideways


But when I use my wing player it's a different story. When ppl start trying to catch my ankles with one v one dribbles I just back up. You'd be surprised how many of these dudes don't even want to shoot the 3.




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[ViolenceFight]

Quote: Originally Posted by Housh123

With all that said in this thread 90% of the solely one VS one stuff that ppl do in park can be stopped by Just playing smart defense As a big I can't keep up with ppl when they do side step backs or turbo sideways But when I use my wing player it's a different story. When ppl start trying to catch my ankles with one v one dribbles I just back up. You'd be surprised how many of these dudes don't even want to shoot the 3. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

This.

If I may, I have stayed silent in this thread because this has been a war that seems like it's lasted for eons at this point. This goes further back than 2k. Hell, it goes back to the origin of competing. It's the "Do anything to win" mentality.

Sirlin wrote a book/Web article called "Playing to win". It's a very good book, and honestly is a must-read for anyone that's ever played games competitively. The 2 most relevant chapters are:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/how-f...-you-go-to-win
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned

Ultimately both those nail a good number of the situations we're currently in. The difference being that in 2k's case, we can use the real NBA as a way to sort of compare and contrast what should be doable vs. What shouldn't be doable. No one is wrong necessarily here either. No one in their right mind is going to intentionally use subpar tactics when playing competitively. And it's understandable that others feel that's not right for valid reasons.

This very much puts the onus on the devs to balance the game out or create a system that rewards variety. Because no matter what it will always devolve into a homogeneous playing field of players doing the same thing because it's the best possible tactic otherwise. It's the nature of competition.

It's especially hard right now because such a big chunk of the player base is so reliant on those tactics that changing them will more than likely lose or alienate the players. From a sales perspective you risk losing future potential buys from that group.

It requires the development team to sit down and ultimately say: "We're making THIS. THIS is how we mean for the game to be played, and that's it" and create their vision of what basketball is. The problem is that sales quotas and goals tell them to make a game that can generate the highest number of sales by reaching the most consumers.

As a community, there is nothing you can do. You can make noise, and call for nerfs. There will always be the selfish players that want to do it all, and they will gravitate towards the best option, so take away one and they will find another. Your best bet is to learn the move, memorize the patterns, and adapt to stopping it. That, and hope that it's addressed by the devs at some point.

That's my whole take on all this.

[MoodMuzik]

Great post^^^ Fantastic tbh, I'll be reading those articles later on you included.

The cheese section of the bleachers in the online modes aren't hard to beat. For fun the other day I used my 74 overall Slasher and ended up playing a 94 Slasher and 97 Shot Creator in a game of 21 and I nearly won.

Back up, give them room to do whatever they want to do, get the rebound.

If they sag off and just sit under the rim, play their game and just sit there 14 feet away until they get tired of waiting and drive past them lol.

The real problem is that it gets old when you end up playing so many like that and they don't end up really playing a game of basketball.

But the trend of "they bought all that VC now they're guy is unstoppable", oh please, they obviously play terribly and now their player actually enforces their mistakes because they think they can get away with it now lol.

[Housh123]

Quote: Originally Posted by MoodMuzik

Great post^^^ Fantastic tbh, I'll be reading those articles later on you included. The cheese section of the bleachers in the online modes aren't hard to beat. For fun the other day I used my 74 overall Slasher and ended up playing a 94 Slasher and 97 Shot Creator in a game of 21 and I nearly won. Back up, give them room to do whatever they want to do, get the rebound. If they sag off and just sit under the rim, play their game and just sit there 14 feet away until they get tired of waiting and drive past them lol. The real problem is that it gets old when you end up playing so many like that and they don't end up really playing a game of basketball. But the trend of "they bought all that VC now they're guy is unstoppable", oh please, they obviously play terribly and now their player actually enforces their mistakes because they think they can get away with it now lol.

Iv said it a lot this year

This isn't even a basketball simulation anymore

It's so arcadey and the way ppl play it is so different than basketball that I can't even call it basketball anymore

But that's ok because it's still fun and can improve


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[Inzombniac]

It's not even an issue of stopping it for me because like most have said, that's doable. Gameplay just gets a little boring around this time of the year because everyone has figured the game out, has their same moves down and it just becomes tedious.

I love when the game first comes out and a few months after that. What's funny about that time, it's when a lot of players complain because usually their shots aren't going in and they aren't making an abundance of shots because no one knows which shots are deadly and are getting used to the timing. One of the most fun moments for me with 2K17 was the first couple of days it came out because I spent so much on the game itself that outside of the 35K you got for pre-ordering, myself and another friend were in the 60's for overall and went on like a 5 game Park win streak against people who were 80's just because we knew how to play the game. No one has patience (and that includes myself since I'm guilty of looking up badge tutorials but I also blame 2K for not having a badge progress meter) to wait but I only wish the developers did because 2K17 out of the box was great last year but they always cave to the early complaints when really, if they'd just wait until people discovered more about the game, then everyone would be better off outside of true game breaking issues. Everyone wants to put up 40 points in the Pro-Am or make every 3 in the Park when the game comes out instead of gradually building to get there.

[BA2929]

Quote: Originally Posted by REEality

I find it weird how, "its part of the game" is the response for some. But if it's a part of the game, why are patches released to remove these things? Why are they removed in the next release of the game?

Why? Because making a 100% perfect video game is not an achievable feat, especially with sports games, so they use patches to fix things that weren't intended.

And since making a perfect game is impossible, there will forever be people who try and gain an edge by gaming the system and using the most efficient ways of playing.

[ViolenceFight]

Quote: Originally Posted by BA2929

Why? Because making a 100% perfect video game is not an achievable feat, especially with sports games, so they use patches to fix things that weren't intended. And since making a perfect game is impossible, there will forever be people who try and gain an edge by gaming the system and using the most efficient ways of playing.

And even then, patching is dangerous. I don't code, but I understand how it works in basic theory.

I think of it in terms of very basic rpg calculations. At it's most basic level, when you press the square button and release it for the jumper, the game is told something like

!Roll 1d100
If 1-44: "miss"
If 45-99: "make"
If 100+: "guaranteed make"

The game generates a number, whatever result happens. It's like a table top RPG.

In 2k, let's say there is a sharpshooter. He's maxed and has all his badges. He shoots with a close out off a good pass.

It probably reads something like:
!Roll 1d100
If 1-30: "Miss"
If 30-90: "Make"
If 91-100+: "Guaranteed Make"

Let's say the close out has a rating of 5 points. Defensive stopper is 5.

Badges are:
HOF catch and shoot 10 pts
Deep Range Dead Eye 10 pts
Dimer from passer 5pts.

The end result in its basic form is
Result=Roll+(10+10+5)+(-5 + -5).

The game rolls a 27. So
R=27+(10+10+5)+(-5 + -5)
R=27+25-10
R=42
R=Make

That's the most basic way of looking at how a game handles interactions. Now think about this: Each system and Mechanic handles a calculation like this for everything. That means a high level interaction, such as a playmaker vs. A Lockdown has a ton of these things happening calculating everything from how much the defense effects the playmaker's repertoire, to what animations will play out due to attributes, to the actual end result.

It's a machine, each system handles sub calculations and function like gears. The overall game puts these calculations together, runs another calculation based on that, and hands you a result.

So where am I going with this? Think of patches as replacing individual gears that break. You change it one way: Oh no, that gear was slightly to small so the machine starts wobbling. Another gear is being too stressed, so you change that. Now the wobbling stabilizes, but it's slightly larger, so it's putting to much pressure on a different gear.

Each patch changes the coding that dictates what happens. Sometimes it fixes the problem, but the fix changes one line used for a specific thing elsewhere, so suddenly they up something like pass detection and it randomly influences something like alley catching. Now the defenders see the oop but don't react to it. That's why it can be hard, a lot of guess work, and sometimes flat out impossible to patch something.

Case in point: During the shooting patches mid year, people were clamoring for a fix (Relentless finisher, maybe?), and I remember Mike specifically saying it was taking so long to fix because changing it outright would've possibly erased everyone's mycareer.

So, sometimes patching isn't the answer either