The Issues I've been seeing with defense in 2k18 (video)

[ForeverVersatile]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Man I spent two full 2KU play throughs just driving and looking at outcomes. There's a lot more body physics going on and causing outcomes than given credit for. I completely agree with El on establishing consistency as far as body collisions go (because the clipping is bad) but I think that will continue to be cleaned up as the engine evolves....but I'm 100% on board with the direction. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

He was mostly talking about the ball going through the body, but it doesn't matter anymore.

To me they made this change because it was a good compromise. We have better motion, great animations and graphics at a cost.

Do we want a game like Live 14-16 with terrible animations and player renders to have good collision detection with hardly any clipping or we can go back to how it was in 2K17 and previous with less input and the suction of canned animations?

Smitty actually had a good video on this subject.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zteDhMs2WGk

I hated clipping until i realized it's in every video game not going anywhere especially in sports games if we want good animations and everything else.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

Sundown-Your analogy better reflects those who are somewhat disappointed with the prelude but not those who see a lot of promise in it. Demo did not taste "off" to me and it further highlighted the issues I had with 2k17 from a control standpoint(I grew to really dislike 2k17 for a myriad of issues). Prelude was a 180 for me in feel. You guys can feel free to drive yourself crazy as I will be getting 2k18 and evaluating the finished product..

I think it's possible to both see promise in the prelude as well as be disappointed/concerned with some glaring aspects the prelude featured. Like I said, if some of the bad-looking issues are a result of the prelude's difficulty, then rookie difficulty appears to be implemented in a questionable manner. I would imagine the core tech should be able to do simple things all the time regardless of difficulty, such as not look or turn the wrong way, not run away from or past the offensive player when he's next to the basket, etc. If it shows up on low difficulty, it's likely it'll also show up at least occasionally in higher difficulties.

I will say that some of the cat-mouse chasing behavior makes a little bit of sense even if it's not great basketball, so I'm not sure I totally agree with the video's commentary on those either (for low difficulty).

And Curry drawing the entirety of the Cavs' defense isn't *that* unrealistic , although it's certainly off with how easy and consistently he can do that in the Prelude. But this might also be a feature of the low difficulty-- massive overhelping.

[Cavs2016]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trackball

This is that other game. (language warning) https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA2k/comme...a_live_not_2k/ But please. Keep thinking we have it sooo bad.

The canned block animations are pretty bad on default sliders in that game. But they can be tuned down to where you get much more realistic interactions. Still, the block animations feel recycled. That's one area where they need to improve.

In this game, shot blocking feels much more smooth and organic. It feels amazing. It's definitely ahead of the other game in that category, objectively speaking.

[The 24th Letter]

I think the way the defense reacts throughout this video, especially with the way Ronnie and LD are playing OBD is night and day....

NBA 2K18 Gameplay Video - Timberwolves (Ronnie2K) vs. Lakers (LD2K)


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[aakaido]

Quote: Originally Posted by swac07

i just peeped something .... carry on fellas

Point?

Quote: Originally Posted by Trackball

This is that other game. (language warning) https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA2k/comme...a_live_not_2k/ But please. Keep thinking we have it sooo bad.

I literally never understand this argument or logic. Live is worse than 2K so don't complain about 2K, when that's not the point or issue to begin with.



Sent from my SM-G925T using Operation Sports mobile app

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by aakaido

But the lack of rotations and the CPU biting on nearly every dribble move is a difficulty thing. The feet sliding is just classic 2K legacy issues that I'd hope would be fixed with the new motion engine.

If anything, I think the excessive feet sliding (being worse than 2K16 and 17 in my opinion) is actually a *product* of the new "motion system". 2K16 advertised better foot planting, which almost always comes at the cost of player movement being at least somewhat tied to animations, unless there's some really sophisticated inverse kinematics and animation synthesis being applied.

2K18 moving away from the over-animated feeling likely means they've uncoupled player movement from animated, foot-planted, root motion animations again, and animations inadequate for the context are often being played as a result. Players moving backwards on defense take 3 slow steps to cover a distance it should take them 6 fast ones, and it feels like the appropriate animations are just not there and no foot planting/inverse kinematics is being attempted. The new system might play better but from what I've seen, it's a somewhat noticeable visual regression especially on defense and off-ball.

[aakaido]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

If anything, I think the excessive feet sliding (being worse than 2K16 and 17 in my opinion) is actually a *product* of the new "motion system". 2K16 advertised better foot planting, which almost always comes at the cost of player movement being at least somewhat tied to animations, unless there's some really sophisticated inverse kinematics and animation synthesis being applied. 2K18 moving away from the over-animated feeling likely means they've uncoupled player movement from animated, foot-planted, root motion animations again, and animations inadequate for the context are often being played as a result. It might play better but from what I've seen, it's a somewhat noticeable visual regression especially on defense and off-ball.

I'd agree with you on offense. I'm still playing 2K16 and their movement with the ball on offense is very meticulous and the foot planting is very deliberate to the point it became overbearing. It resulted in a lack of explosion you needed and expected to have after making a dribble move.

On defense, however, it's more of the same since 2K14 (don't remember 2K13 that well as I didn't own it). They slide everywhere you go when getting beat off the dribble to keep up with you.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Operation Sports mobile app

[swac07]

Quote: Originally Posted by aakaido

Point? Sent from my SM-G925T using Operation Sports mobile app

For myself that's all .....again....Carry on 👍

Sent from my Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator,