This needs to stop NOW!!!!'

[shayellis]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Actually, if you look above the OP has clarified his concern and it looks like we've come to an understanding, even if we don't agree on all fronts. It's doesnt have to be a 'if you don't 100% agree with my stance, you must think you're better than me' situation....sometimes it just takes some back and forth without being accusatory....

Correct you don't have to 100 percent agree on everything to come to an understanding. And it's cool you guys did, but it's still a fallacy regardless.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by shayellis

I would prefer the 2k16 way without the automatic jumping into the shot part. It should be a foul but not a shooting foul, unless your actually shooting. I think you should be able to go into a shot during the foul manually by leaning the thumbstick forward and shooting. AI improvements would probably be needed to prevent the cpu from jumping at the pump fakes all game. For instance, they could program the AI to not commit to jumping on pump fakes, the more you abuse them Also as the OP said, you cant always just move out of the way in time, if the defender is jumping like a rabbit (Especially in Pro Am) But like someone in this thread said earlier, this thread has moved from "Why is this not a foul" to "Stick skills in the post 101". Which is basically a red herring fallacy. Yes it is sometimes possible to avoid the defender falling into you, but it still doesnt address the core of the OP's concern.

I know this thread was basically coming to a close with the last few post. But I have to say. This isn't a AI problem. This is a human exploiting real life situations. Even though we are literally saying "this is wrong it should be a foul. But because of the past history of the application of a foul here they had to remove the foul part"..... But you guys are saying it's still wrong. We even gave you work around. And you still disagree with us.

And then finally the above in bold.... WTF?..... In real life. If I pump fake and you go in the air. And I make contact while your in the and get a shot off. It's a foul every single time. What player isn't going to shoot the ball? Going back to 2k16 would be terrible..... Last year (2k17) was ok, because nothing literally happened (but not ok). But you'd rather go back to the 2k16 foul fest? When I watch that video from 2k16. My basketball heart hurts. That guy did it for the whole game.... He switched to Kendrick at halftime.

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by barond57

Again you are missing the one important factor that I have been saying. My input was not to go into him. Instead the game put me in animation that made it seem that way.

OP, my understanding is that there are other cases where you do successfully complete the Up and Under move void of a defender falling on you.

Considering the above conditions, what would you say is your average success rate on 10 Up and Under attempts per day or week? I'm sorry to meet you at this level here but this is the story we have arrived on.

Do you have any highlights to show you succeeding with this move? In my impression, there is so much focus on how you performed during this single event that your reputation for post moves has become painted solely based off this event.

Now, some have admit they have had and perhaps continue to experience their own quirks with the post game and they toss it on the side of user skill being rewarded and punished - obviously not everyone is readily accepting to chalk up each erroneous outcome to user skill so it's very subjective which outcomes get pegged to user skill and which get pegged to game play shortcomings.

I understand both POVs and both have valid points in this thread re; the game play flaw and the user benefit: arguably both sides are at odds on which design should prevail over the other. Void of arguing who has the strongest opinions in here: I'd much prefer to find out your own analysis on this thread considering you are the OP who is suffering the situation.

A helping hand and voice of reason has been offered on occsssion and you object that it's not your fault which I'm not here to argue on you. Dismissing this single event caused by the guidance of the AI, I feel obliged to continue to ask you what is your going success rate with the Up and Under from your own experience? It seems your experience with the post game in 18 is something you're not content with in general and I believe you summed it up this way in one of your posts that it was one of the worst in the series? I can see how that opinion would offend those who hold dear to the post game nuances of 18 and in effect it creates a stir or division of wings.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

[barond57]

Here's a quick reel of my skill level from 2k16

https://youtu.be/NXeeVxJQK-0

As you can see I never make my guy the tallest, and don't rely and cheap moves, I try to take posting up seriously like it's an art.

As far as the success rate, there are so many variables that go into it. If you're playing with randoms you rarely get the ball in the post. If you do get the ball it's a spam fest steal attempts, which I will give credit to 2k for atleast it finally drawing fouls while you're idle and holding the post button. Last year it didn't matter if I was waiting for guys would just poke the ball out st crazy rates. What also contributes to posting up is that it seems this year there is less consequence for guys doubling and still being able to reach their man in time if I pass it back. What I noticed this year as that there are more animations for tip passes, which is good in theory, but doesn't help with spammers. Say you get the ball in the post and an extra defender dives down spamming steal. If it try to pass it back to his man, because he's spamming steal he will be put in an animation where he tips the pass. Keep in mind, he's not going for a tip pass, he's trying to dig in but gets rewarded for spamming. Anyways when I do attempt an up and under and get my man in the air I'd say about 60% of the time its successful. But again to actually get to that point is maybe once a game.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ILLSmak]

another thing is just going super slow, but as said it is hard with people ripping the ball out of your hands in the post. In 17 it took me a long time to learn how to do a drop step because I was going too fast. The game does have a window and it kind of does poorly with complex button inputs (or did in 17.)

+lag + probable packet loss (pressing buttons and nothing happening, or going too fast as I said, like icon passing.)

I completely believe he got locked into a situation where he was in the wrong 'window' and tried to do a move but it just mauled him. It's error, but I don't think it's input error. This is coming from someone who has failed hard in the post many times, trying to do intuitive things, wedge thru people not have to go around them. I wanna do post moves faster than Dikembe.

Edit: lol yo... I just watched the video in the OP again. That's really ridiculous. Dude got faked and he was already around him.

-Smak

[Piopi_starJR]

You know what I love. 2k Pro am walk on. There's nothing more fun then being someone who's not either a sharpshooter or a big. It really shows the dynamic playing ability and the strengths all combinations of character abilities. Anyone then the above 2 characters get to sit back relax and watch as sharps just run back and fourth at the 3 point line till they cash 30+ points going 15/20 from the field. Or any misses they might get gets cleaned up by bigs who average 20pts 30 boards just posting up from the three backing there way to the rim and slamming it down while 5 defenders jump around frantically trying to block them just to foul out. Gotta love the new online play style, so get out there and watch 2 other players get 30 points while you sit back and relax!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by barond57

Here's a quick reel of my skill level from 2k16 https://youtu.be/NXeeVxJQK-0 As you can see I never make my guy the tallest, and don't rely and cheap moves, I try to take posting up seriously like it's an art. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I don't consider you at fault in the original video. You were definitely the victim of circumstances but it's something that happens with animations. In 18 they are allowing for more unexpected, unpredictable animations and it has its pros and cons.

We will never reach a conclusive agreement in a forum on whether this outcome should play out as a foul or a block or a no call with a viable opportunity to finish. What is safe to say is that it will not always result in a cheap block like this and definitely you have the skills to come out on the winning end more often than not.

It's definitely frustrating nonetheless when you suffer these struggles in the area of performance you pride yourself in most.


Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz

I don't consider you at fault in the original video. You were definitely the victim of circumstances but it's something that happens with animations. In 18 they are allowing for more unexpected, unpredictable animations and it has its pros and cons. We will never reach a conclusive agreement in a forum on whether this outcome should play out as a foul or a block or a no call with a viable opportunity to finish. What is safe to say is that it will not always result in a cheap block like this and definitely you have the skills to come out on the winning end more often than not. It's definitely frustrating nonetheless when you suffer these struggles in the area of performance you pride yourself in most. Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Close the thread. This post says it all.