Sim vs cheese online is the WRONG debate: is a matter of superior/inferior tactics

[ataman5]

Sam is cheese, not that i point him anything personal but it's true and i like him being cheese this way because with him explaining all that i believe and hope 2k devs are on the watch and keep improving the game as it should in order to stop those repetitive, game breaking actions either via patch if possible or with the next iteration. So it's all good he does what he does.

[Keith01]

This is why 1vs1 is annoying. Dumb CPU. CPU exploits. It's why I play vs humans and I don't want CPU buttons to work in pro-am (they do, but they shouldn't, and it's a glitch - double team and intentional foul glitch).

As far as Sim vs Cheese, cheesers been trying to make excuses for centuries Now OP is saying "inferior vs superior" and "effective" lol. Same concept different cover words. Just accept something for what it is. If it's over-effective proportionately to real life NBA basketball, it's cheese. If you're trying to convince sim people "no it's not cheese", you've already lost. Sim is self-evident.

It's not that hard. Sim is NBA basketball anything and everything. Sim is physics, elements, cause/effect, etc etc has to mirror the real NBA in a realistic way. i.e. heavily contested shots should miss a lot. This basketball environment is created by 2K, not cheesers or simmers, so the onus always goes back on who's creating the environment of these physics and elements.

People cheese because it works...or "effective". "Effective" is dependent on the basketball environment, aka the creators of the game. The more real the cause/effect environment, the less there even is the POSSIBILITY for cheese. So what happens in that environment? "Cheesers" don't become cheesers, they just SUCK trying to cheese. They get EXPOSED for their horrible bball iq, and the Sim people actually don't just feel good about keeping basketball realistic, they WIN playing real basketball. It's a beautiful thing. The sim bball environment FORCES you to play REALISTIC or you lose.

The skill gap should always favor bball iq, not exploits or the "character" you make.

[Housh123]

In online play the only thing that matters is a win and a loss

And those complaining are probably the ones catching mostly losses

That’s in every online game EVER. Ppl so trash tactics that exploit game flaws and win. If you don’t do them you lose. My Madden record will always be .500 because I refuse to learn any cheese


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[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by DC

Samuel, You knew you had lactose running through your veins before you made this thread. It is what it is.

My take remains to be this: I know I am effective because I apply NBA tactics, but how much hand holding am I really suppose to do for the game to keep it sim ? I only know how to run NBA like sets, to truly have realistic FG% i literally have to just miss on purpose and take terrible shots. I play so intricately even on cruise control I can't help but score 65%+ vs HOF. The best way to keep it sim for me is to show my gameplay to the devs so they can improve the game and slow me down. Thats why I still post my own favourite gameplays as threads on OS every once in awhile, I love this place haha

As a side note:I started my channel so I can improve on 2K: 3 years later improved too much and kinda screwed myself ...... The need to develop improved tactics consistently has kinda ruined my ability to hand hold this game. Offline I literally have to try and miss shots to get anything close to 50% FG. If i want lower than that i might just have to dribble out of bounds. Even if I try to limit myself to calling every play just once I know enough plays to use a different one for an entire 48 minute game. And we haven't even talked about the defense, I still feel like 2K calls a very bad offense this year. Too much ISO and is not using the correct plays or the best ability of its players. I played Nuggets on HOF the other night; they didn't run ONE DHO with Jokic and Harris. Harris barely cut off ball and Jokic got no elbow touches ...... Thats SO FRUSTRATING TO ME......

Sam

[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by ataman5

Sam is cheese, not that i point him anything personal but it's true and i like him being cheese this way because with him explaining all that i believe and hope 2k devs are on the watch and keep improving the game as it should in order to stop those repetitive, game breaking actions either via patch if possible or with the next iteration. So it's all good he does what he does.

After reading this whole thread i think i have come to the realization I am "positive cheese" ? LOL I am okay with that

Sam

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by itchyroll_51

After reading this whole thread i think i have come to the realization I am "positive cheese" ? LOL I am okay with that Sam

And that's ok.... I think my only problem is the post up game LMAO. I already see guys posting up. And fake and then spin move baseline. And not knowing any counter moves or anything for their situation.

I guess I don't blame you trying to get hits. But I always remember the first time you released the cut to the basket video. That week in PNO I saw a guy using it for every play. Every single play... 2k has come a long way since the AI has improved to the point that play doesn't work as easy. I think every year you expose something 2k has to go and fix. And I guess I thank you for that. But those cycles hurt lol.....

[killakrok]

Quote: Originally Posted by itchyroll_51

I played Nuggets on HOF the other night; they didn't run ONE DHO with Jokic and Harris. Harris barely cut off ball and Jokic got no elbow touches ...... Thats SO FRUSTRATING TO ME......

I was just at the Nuggets-Nets game watching their offense dissect the Nets and thinking about how that doesn't happen in game. AI opponents just feel like the same system with different players.

[itchyroll_51]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

And that's ok.... I think my only problem is the post up game LMAO. I already see guys posting up. And fake and then spin move baseline. And not knowing any counter moves or anything for their situation. I guess I don't blame you trying to get hits. But I always remember the first time you released the cut to the basket video. That week in PNO I saw a guy using it for every play. Every single play... 2k has come a long way since the AI has improved to the point that play doesn't work as easy. I think every year you expose something 2k has to go and fix. And I guess I thank you for that. But those cycles hurt lol.....

I think without me this game might have feel pretty balance in some respects in terms of skill gap. Since weaker players will never have access to my level of tactics, stronger players will find easier prey in general.

Ever since i started i figured out a couple game changing things: the post spin move you hate (lol), the PnR flush in 2K16, the katana cuts in 2K17, help and no rotation defense in 17 (that actually saved the game for a lot of people tho), 2K16 pace motion middle PnR, 2K18 Warriors motion PnF, 2K18 pump fake flush cuts, 2K18 double screen butt pick flush cuts, RS defense 2K18, and a few more. Good news tho is 2K has solved the 16 flush cut and the 17 katana cuts pretty much; i have improved them in 18 so they are OP again but 2K did catch up. Post spin move you hate still OP for some reason lol That's been around since 14.

I like what I do, and I appreciate everyone's honest opinion about it. I really do do it so 2K can fix it, I get no joy crushing HOF like this lol