2K19: Long Pass Spam

[Fakename22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

That's fair, because in truth we're not asking for every play to be a steal. I'm of the opinion most would be deflections out of bounds like the plays below. Either way, them breaking towards the ball prevents foolishness like that end-of-quarter Lowry three. But not facing the offense in transition and allowing the offensive player unimpeded catches on the far side of the court? CAN'T HAPPEN.

Not only that but we arent asking for steals youre right.

But at least set the defense up in a manner that makes the player wants to pass to (GASP) the PG or whoevers back there not some cheesy hail mary that our players dont see or react to quick enough.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Welp.....pretty much the definitive clip on the long pass issue. Pretty sure my work is done here.

Can you at least see what happen there? There ball was going out of bounds. Because it was a bad pass. But your defender tipped it back into play.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

Can you at least see what happen there? There ball was going out of bounds. Because it was a bad pass. But your defender tipped it back into play. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Rant ahead.

Spoiler

Everything about that sequence was bad.

After the made bucket every defender should be retreating with eyes on the ball and their man. They should position themselves relative to their man to make a long pass into the paint nearly impossible to complete in this situation while also being a deterrent the long pass attempt up the sideline.

The pass itself was inexplicably errant, with the intended recipient of the pass being able to react to it without having clear vision of it. The defender in the paint should have got a clean go the other way "pick 6" animation sequence, but instead the ball just bounces off of his body because his hands never come up. The offensive player then gets a turbo boost to ball and recovers it.

The long pass spam is a byproduct of the core problems with the ball-you-man logic of defenders. They need to be programmed to be much quicker with establishing visual-spacial awareness of the ball and man, especially after made buckets. Turnovers and bad misses, should be more chaotic though, allowing for some throw ahead baskets.

That play was ghastly.

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

Can you at least see what happen there? There ball was going out of bounds. Because it was a bad pass. But your defender tipped it back into play. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Jeebs, cmon bro....you can't seriously be rationalizing that mess. This play is indefensible and speaks to the issues of defenders having ZERO AWARENESS.

The ball is thrown right at the defenders and NOT ONLY are they clueless regarding reacting to it...but also catching or simply picking up the loose ball. The play itself is a microcosm of everything that is wrong in transition defense.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Jeebs, cmon bro....you can't seriously be rationalizing that mess. This play is indefensible and speaks to the issues of defenders having ZERO AWARENESS. The ball is thrown right at the defenders and NOT ONLY are they clueless regarding reacting to it...but also catching or simply picking up the loose ball. The play itself is a microcosm of everything that is wrong in transition defense.

Kushmir we talk about it all the time. This is the checks and balances we talk about all the time. It can't be automatic steal, it can't be a automatic turnover and it definitely can't be a automatic catch. This pass is going to be a turnover. It is because it's no way near the receiver (I'm guessing Taj Gibson here). The coding here has the ball is going out of bounds. But then you try to steal (but you didn't even press the steal button). The ball does what it suppose to do and hits you. Now it turns into a 50-50 ball (because the CPU back is to the ball He has no clue where it is). Where as in before all this. The ball was going out. It's a turnover. But once again multiple levels of different out comes.

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

Rant ahead. Spoiler Everything about that sequence was bad. After the made bucket every defender should be retreating with eyes on the ball and their man. They should position themselves relative to their man to make a long pass into the paint nearly impossible to complete in this situation while also being a deterrent the long pass attempt up the sideline. The pass itself was inexplicably errant, with the intended recipient of the pass being able to react to it without having clear vision of it. The defender in the paint should have got a clean go the other way "pick 6" animation sequence, but instead the ball just bounces off of his body because his hands never come up. The offensive player then gets a turbo boost to ball and recovers it. The long pass spam is a byproduct of the core problems with the ball-you-man logic of defenders. They need to be programmed to be much quicker with establishing visual-spacial awareness of the ball and man, especially after made buckets. Turnovers and bad misses, should be more chaotic though, allowing for some throw ahead baskets. That play was ghastly.

My opinion above.

One more question... You guys are telling me you don't see bad long passes?


edit: What player runs back looking for his man and looking at the ball at the same time? It doesn't happen that way. When a player is running back he's looking for his man first and then once he's between the basket and his man. He's looking at the ball.

[jeebs9]

Also to add. When a player is running back to his man. He shouldn't see the ball. Espeically if he is scrambling back to him. The most he can do is put his hand up as he runs back to his.

There is 1 thing in common with all these plays‼️ @frank_ntilikina is pushing the ball at every possible opportunity‼️Forcing teams to play at a pace that they aren’t comfortable with is ��‼️ #ChangingFromOffenseToDefenseIsntEasy #TakeAvantageOfIt

A post shared by Chris Brickley (@cbrickley603) on Jan 15, 2018 at 7:33pm PST

or https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd_rS0RDfbI/

This holds even more true when we are talking about long passes. Look at the first 2 clips of the video. Twice D Allen is caught running back looking for the ball. He can't find it.
https://youtu.be/ZQ0xe6D1cRo?t=18s
https://youtu.be/ZQ0xe6D1cRo?t=29s


But I repeat my question again. Do you guys see any bad long passes? Because that's basically impossible. I see bad passes all the time lol

Did you you even attempt to steal the pass? Or did you expect the defender you were controlling Amir Johnson to steal the pass?

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

Kushmir we talk about it all the time. This is the checks and balances we talk about all the time.

Of course I see bad long passes...But the problem here lies with the fact that the CPU defenders are 1) Unaware of the ball. 2) Not facing the ball when getting back on defense. 3) clueless regarding loose balls (defenders should always have the advantage here--they're expecting to disrupt the play, the offense is expecting execution) This is after a score and the defense can't get back?

That's totally unacceptable.

While i'm all for a minute amount of outcomes (1 in 50) where the offensive player goes up and aggressively catches the ball. The vast majority of these passes should be easily stolen or deflected out of bounds. I'd also like to see the bad pass out of bounds you mentioned.

Plays like this with defenders back on D can't be high percentage or there's never a reason to bring the ball up conventionally.

None of the videos you posted were after made baskets....also there's the issue of presenting a low percentage play as something you can recreate in a routine manner (the #1 reason we have the issues with chase-down blocks we have now) even elite rim-runners might beat a guy up the floor less than 5x per game. When gameplay allows TD passes at will there's a HUGE issue.