Jumping on a pumpfake in the paint should lead to a foul 90% of the time

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Nah I’m with the “then don’t jump” movement. If after playing multiple games vs players you don’t learn to jump at everything then you should continue to be punished. Especially since hands up D is good enough 70% of the time.

In real life you see guys like Wade, Derozan and now even Embiid have scouting reports that say don’t jump on their shots because of their tendency to shot fake and draw fouls.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by UnbelievablyRAW

Nah I’m with the “then don’t jump” movement. If after playing multiple games vs players you don’t learn to jump at everything then you should continue to be punished. Especially since hands up D is good enough 70% of the time. In real life you see guys like Wade, Derozan and now even Embiid have scouting reports that say don’t jump on their shots because of their tendency to shot fake and draw fouls.

I think your confusing the 2 things here.

You can draw fouls from players jumping out at you. Not in the paint though.

[itsmb8]

Imo the balance should be this.. If you jump the contest should be more intense but there should also be a high chance of fouling, from ANYWHERE. Hands up defense is a good way of playing defense, and its what ive ALWAYS been taught. When I played I was always at the 5 so I was taught this extremely often. When in the paint dont leave your feet, just stand there with your hands straight up. If you jump or your hands start to reach over, theyre calling a foul almost all the time. If they made jump have more of a penalty, then youll definitely start seeing more fouls on default, and even get the 3pt fouls or pump fake fouls again that seem absent currently.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

I think your confusing the 2 things here. You can draw fouls from players jumping out at you. Not in the paint though.

Thats what I mean. Embiid in post face up loves baiting centers into jumping into him or slapping his hands. Under the rim, there is no way a ref is not calling a foul if a player fakes a defender into the air, then the guy lands on him as he's going up. These fake blocks that people get rewarded with by mistiming blocks or literally just spamming triangle isn't the solution.

So many times I'd have a mismatch in the post with a center vs a sf or something. Post the guy to the rim because of my strength advantage, get him in the air with a fake then my guy will start flailing as the ball gets knocked out of his hands because the defender jump spamming is able to block me before I even actually shoot. I'd much rather it punish the defender than the offensive player. Even if that means people try to take advantage of it by pumpfaking everything in the paint (because that's what savvy post players in real life do anyway).

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by UnbelievablyRAW

Nah I’m with the “then don’t jump” movement. If after playing multiple games vs players you don’t learn to jump at everything then you should continue to be punished. Especially since hands up D is good enough 70% of the time. In real life you see guys like Wade, Derozan and now even Embiid have scouting reports that say don’t jump on their shots because of their tendency to shot fake and draw fouls.

Sounds good in theory but in practice? Would be horrible. Think of how bad dunks in the paint were in 2K17 when users could trigger animations....but a mechanic that allows us to draw fouls on defenders will be game-breaking w/o a counter. Especially with elite guys....right now the hook shot isn't as money as it was in 2K17, but imagine if its high percentage in 2K19 (especially if you dont have a good post defender)....users will bait you with it and then easily draw fouls if you jump. Imagine savvy users having the choice of high percentage makes with the hook or drawing fouls at a high rate...

Does being really careful make sense now?

[Kushmir]

Quote: Originally Posted by UnbelievablyRAW

Thats what I mean. Embiid in post face up loves baiting centers into jumping into him or slapping his hands. Under the rim, there is no way a ref is not calling a foul if a player fakes a defender into the air, then the guy lands on him as he's going up. These fake blocks that people get rewarded with by mistiming blocks or literally just spamming triangle isn't the solution. So many times I'd have a mismatch in the post with a center vs a sf or something. Post the guy to the rim because of my strength advantage, get him in the air with a fake then my guy will start flailing as the ball gets knocked out of his hands because the defender jump spamming is able to block me before I even actually shoot. I'd much rather it punish the defender than the offensive player. Even if that means people try to take advantage of it by pumpfaking everything in the paint (because that's what savvy post players in real life do anyway).

Again, I get that you're frustrated (hell i'm a sixer fan that knows Embiid is gonna get mauled when I play online--and that I have to have good timing to make shot but my defender doesn't have to have good timing to block one) but you're talking about fixing a problem by making one, man....let's fix stuff instead, agreed?

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by itsmb8

Imo the balance should be this.. If you jump the contest should be more intense but there should also be a high chance of fouling, from ANYWHERE. Hands up defense is a good way of playing defense, and its what ive ALWAYS been taught. When I played I was always at the 5 so I was taught this extremely often. When in the paint dont leave your feet, just stand there with your hands straight up. If you jump or your hands start to reach over, theyre calling a foul almost all the time. If they made jump have more of a penalty, then youll definitely start seeing more fouls on default, and even get the 3pt fouls or pump fake fouls again that seem absent currently.

Yeah still will break it.

Quote: Originally Posted by UnbelievablyRAW

Thats what I mean. Embiid in post face up loves baiting centers into jumping into him or slapping his hands. Under the rim, there is no way a ref is not calling a foul if a player fakes a defender into the air, then the guy lands on him as he's going up. These fake blocks that people get rewarded with by mistiming blocks or literally just spamming triangle isn't the solution. So many times I'd have a mismatch in the post with a center vs a sf or something. Post the guy to the rim because of my strength advantage, get him in the air with a fake then my guy will start flailing as the ball gets knocked out of his hands because the defender jump spamming is able to block me before I even actually shoot. I'd much rather it punish the defender than the offensive player. Even if that means people try to take advantage of it by pumpfaking everything in the paint (because that's what savvy post players in real life do anyway).

I repeat you can still get fouls on players outside of the paint.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kushmir

Sounds good in theory but in practice? Would be horrible. Think of how bad dunks in the paint were in 2K17 when users could trigger animations....but a mechanic that allows us to draw fouls on defenders will be game-breaking w/o a counter. Especially with elite guys....right now the hook shot isn't as money as it was in 2K17, but imagine if its high percentage in 2k19 (especially if you dont have a good post defender)....users will bait you with it and then easily draw fouls if you jump. Imagine savvy users having the choice of high percentage makes with the hook or drawing fouls at a high rate... Does being really careful make sense now?

Exactly

I think the choice 2k made here was simple. Stay away from the single out come. You can still easily score on the defense. You just have to choose the right hand to finish with. If you don't... You get blocked. Notice how that's checks and balance. But if you make it a foul. It turns into get the foul not get the best possible look at the basket.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

Yeah still will break it. I repeat you can still get fouls on players outside of the paint. Exactly I think the choice 2k made here was simple. Stay away from the single out come. You can still easily score on the defense. You just have to choose the right hand to finish with. If you don't... You get blocked. Notice how that's checks and balance. But if you make it a foul. It turns into get the foul not get the best possible look at the basket. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I'm only talking about in the paint. The problem with what you guys think will happen is that its completely not a negative. You guys are implying that having people jumping when they're not supposed to and getting called for fouls in the paint is something that can be abused...but that doesn't make sense.

Unlike contact poster dunks or whatever, YOU jumping on defense requires YOU to press jump. You can't get sucked into an animation foul of jumping on a pumpfaking defender if YOU don't jump. This can only be abused if the defender doesn't learn their lesson and doesn't jump at every shot in the paint. An animation poster dunk is a one person animation triggered by one user that the defence can't do anything about Kushmir. What I'm talking about requires participation by both parties. If I'm on offense, I pumpfake and YOU willingly jump towards me in the paint, you should almost automatically get a foul. Theres no being sucked into something you didn't press or any excuse that the game did something you didn't press.

Bring help defenders, or stand there with your hands up. You can even jump after most shot animations and 2k still counts that as contests. There is literally no way this can be abused vs people that understand how to play basketball

Most solutions to problems shouldn't be binary but this is one that is in real life. You're rarely going to catch a big man jump early and not get called for a foul if the offensive player goes through them. Its a very easy call to make