Can we just get rid of "spamming" entirely?

[loso_34]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

I've seen real NBA defenders leave the ground with both feet and recover to make a block. Sometimes it could be a small jump, other times a moderate jump. But it's not like it's *impossible* to recover to make a play once you leave your feet. Jordan Bell (Warriors) is one player that I've seen that has enough speed/quickness where his recovery/second jump is still effective if he was baited initially. What's truly unrealistic is currently how 2k has "jumping" programmed. It's an all or nothing event. 2k players completely sell out (full force, full effort on all jumps) as if they're flying or gliding. Maybe this is already present, but not sure ... what would be a nice gameplay addition is if the block button is "button sensitive," the longer that you hold the button, the higher the player jumps. This would also give the defender the ability to "bait" the offense ball hander. McGee blocks Aldridge (I know this one isn't exactly what you're referring to, but McGee does leave his feet slightly on the second "contest" before actually committing to the actual block on his third "real" jump). And before you say it, no, I'm not talking about the McGee block when I'm talking about players recovering to make a play after they leave their feet; the McGee block is just to illustrate an example to counter the statement that leaving your feet (regardless of how high the player jumps) negates that same player from making a second play. Spoiler @1:07 - 1:11 (defender blocks the shot a couple times in a row successfully so I'm not sure if you would consider this as making another play when the defender leaves the ground.) Spoiler Kevin Durant (OKC) does leave his feet and recovers to block a shot.

a long 7 footer is your example? lmaoo

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by loso_34

a long 7 footer is your example? lmaoo

What I really dislike is when the opposition dismisses real evidence and throws in a "lmao" acronym as a follow up response. The KD example is a direct counter to the argument that one is "cooked" when you leave both feet.

How about another example then. Someone who is barely 6'9" in shoes, Jordan Bell (Warriors) @2:25 - 2:37 Jordan fully bites on the first, and recovers to block the shot. Are you going to disregard this as well and ask me to find someone who does it that is 5' 0"?

If you're going to use "rare" as the excuse.... How about you simply jump up and down multiple times and see how fast you can jump the second time. The ability to immediately jump a second time after the first jump is an athletic feat anyone can do. Because 2k sure as heck doesn't replicate jumping realistically at all. "2k jump" is actually a "floating," "gliding" jump. Jumping shouldn't be like an "action potential" vs "refractory period" in science where you have to wait a few seconds before the action can occur again. Well, technically it is (because it depends on how fast your muscle cells fire, it could be less than a second to second, etc.) but wanting the second jump in 2k to be several seconds later (or whatever time restriction) doesn't make sense.


@2:25 - 2:37 Jordan Bell leaves both feet (an extremely high first jump), then recovers to block the shot.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

Well I think the problem is that despite you draining the fade, the game probably registered that as contested because of the second jump. In real life if someone goes for a block, they put a lot of effort into it and there’s no Mario double-jumping. A missed block attempt usually puts you right out of the play. Right now spamming jump in the paint is a very viable defensive strategy - I do it all the time. Generally it’s better to just time your block properly but given the frequency that this game puts you in a 2 man poster animation when you play hands up, I sometimes have better luck spamming especially after offensive rebounds.

Is that why I can't hit simple putbacks and hook shots around the rim???? The second jump is still being registered as a heavily contested shot?

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

What I really dislike is when the opposition dismisses real evidence and throws in a "lmao" acronym as a follow up response. The KD example is a direct counter to the argument that one is "cooked" when you leave both feet. How about another example then. Someone who is barely 6'9" in shoes, Jordan Bell (Warriors) @2:25 - 2:37 Jordan fully bites on the first, and recovers to block the shot. Are you going to disregard this as well and ask me to find someone who does it that is 5' 0"? If you're going to use "rare" as the excuse.... How about you simply jump up and down multiple times and see how fast you can jump the second time. The ability to immediately jump a second time after the first jump is an athletic feat anyone can do. Because 2k sure as heck doesn't replicate jumping realistically at all. "2k jump" is actually a "floating," "gliding" jump. Jumping shouldn't be like an "action potential" vs "refractory period" in science where you have to wait a few seconds before the action can occur again. Well, technically it is (because it depends on how fast your muscle cells fire, it could be less than a second to second, etc.) but wanting the second jump in 2k to be several seconds later (or whatever time restriction) doesn't make sense. @2:25 - 2:37 Jordan Bell leaves both feet (an extremely high first jump), then recovers to block the shot.

I get what you’re alluding to. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a guy to jump twice although in your examples they’re not blocking a guy after a pump fake which is my main concern. At the same time, I could probably find hundreds of more examples of guys getting burned after jumping than you could find of guys recovering and making a nice defensive play.

My point is spamming jump in the paint shouldn’t be an effective strategy but it is. Should it never work? Of course not. Maybe for rim protectors it could even continue to be semi viable. As it is, anyone can do it and get decent results. Against 7’3 guys, it’s practically a necessity because hands up anywhere inside the restricted generally gets you crammed on.

[Thrustie]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

Is that why I can't hit simple putbacks and hook shots around the rim???? The second jump is still being registered as a heavily contested shot?

For sure. I get good contest on my second jump regularly. I mean I’m not acting like I NEVER get burned for jumping. Sometimes guys get a favourable animation after the pump fake or go up so quickly that I can’t even get my second jump off. I can honestly say though I have better luck spamming jump deep in the paint than I do with hands up and it’s not even close.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

For sure. I get good contest on my second jump regularly. I mean I’m not acting like I NEVER get burned for jumping. Sometimes guys get a favourable animation after the pump fake or go up so quickly that I can’t even get my second jump off. I can honestly say though I have better luck spamming jump deep in the paint than I do with hands up and it’s not even close.

Crap like this makes me want to break something. This WHOLE year, I've been playing with hands up underneath the basket or near the rim, because I could have SWORN that I read something from Mike Wang that hands up was supposed to be somewhat more effective this year. If I miss the block on the first attempt, I immediately use the hands up, so I'm not jumping out of positioning.

THEN this whole time I thought my bigs in online PNO (and respectively my RP w/Post Scoring) just sucked at scoring underneath unless they had a high standing dunk rating like Shaq or Wilt. So, I wasted my anger on the offensive woes when the defensive player actually has an "unfair" advantage underneath the rim with the spam jumping? YET, when I CLEARLY contest an 3PT shot on a strong closeout or while playing on the ball defense, the offensive player can splash it in my face like I wasn't even there.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

Crap like this makes me want to break something. This WHOLE year, I've been playing with hands up underneath the basket or near the rim, because I could have SWORN that I read something from Mike Wang that hands up was supposed to be somewhat more effective this year. If I miss the block on the first attempt, I immediately use the hands up, so I'm not jumping out of positioning. THEN this whole time I thought my bigs in online PNO (and respectively my RP w/Post Scoring) just sucked at scoring underneath unless they had a high standing dunk rating like Shaq or Wilt. So, I wasted my anger on the offensive woes when the defensive player actually has an "unfair" advantage underneath the rim with the spam jumping? YET, when I CLEARLY contest an 3PT shot on a strong closeout or while playing on the ball defense, the offensive player can splash it in my face like I wasn't even there.

You tried to play basketball when exploiting the weaknesses in the gameplay mechanics was the best tactic. This is still the bain of H2H online play.

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thrustie

I get what you’re alluding to. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a guy to jump twice although in your examples they’re not blocking a guy after a pump fake which is my main concern. At the same time, I could probably find hundreds of more examples of guys getting burned after jumping than you could find of guys recovering and making a nice defensive play. My point is spamming jump in the paint shouldn’t be an effective strategy but it is. Should it never work? Of course not. Maybe for rim protectors it could even continue to be semi viable. As it is, anyone can do it and get decent results. Against 7’3 guys, it’s practically a necessity because hands up anywhere inside the restricted generally gets you crammed on.

Three part "question" ....

Food for thought: Disregard the outcome of "spamming jump" in the paint ... but is "spam jumping" realistic? Can someone physically jump multiple times with speed. Again, disregard the outcome.

Next nugget: Instead of penalizing a real defensive athletic move (i.e. quickly jumping multiple times), 2k should look to retool the offensive player's ability to explode after a pump fake. 2k should redo the jump button so it's button sensitive. As it stands, there's no way for the defensive shot blocker to take small hops to bait the offensive player (i.e. McGee vs Aldridge) video in spoiler tag below.

Third: The problem with 2k is that stringing together "post" moves is slow. The whole entire 2k game is slow (i.e. just look at the running animations for big man or fire up the Cleveland Cavaliers and watch Korver -- he's slow, when he should be fairly fast, etc). Even the slowest big man in the NBA don't run as slow as 2k's big man.

... technically ...

... Jordan Bell's block (@2:25 - 2:37) was after a pump fake. But yes, had the same exact player actually gone up again after the pump fake Bell would never have recovered because Bell would still be up in the air.

... Aldridge pump fakes gets blocked by McGee on third jump. Obviously unique scenario. Yes, McGee does a small jump the second time (he leaves his feet). Yes, I know you're not exactly referring to small hops, but it's an example of still blocking the shot after falling for a pump fake.

Spoiler