Footplanting and Momentum

[El_Poopador]

I know this has been talked about at length, and it's been stated that footplanting is sacrificed for smoothness, but I still feel like the end goal should still be realism.

This happened last night. I got by Sexton with Curry, and Love was waiting for me in the paint. I opted to use Sexton's momentum against him and go with a stepback, knowing how quick Curry's release is (and that 2k seems to have gotten that quick release right this year).

Instead of him running past me and throwing a hand up, he is able to get around me, change directions, and get off his feet and contest the shot in what is essentially one motion, ignoring the physical body of Curry and sliding into position. What should have been an open or at most lightly contested shot registered as heavily contested.



There was no penalty for the defender's momentum. While I do understand that every single step may not be accounted for, things like this shouldn't happen. There needs to be a sense of momentum and weight, and the footplanting is a big part of that.

[FixEverything2k]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I know this has been talked about at length, and it's been stated that footplanting is sacrificed for smoothness, but I still feel like the end goal should still be realism.

This happened last night. I got by Sexton with Curry, and Love was waiting for me in the paint. I opted to use Sexton's momentum against him and go with a stepback, knowing how quick Curry's release is (and that 2k seems to have gotten that quick release right this year).

Instead of him running past me and throwing a hand up, he is able to get around me, change directions, and get off his feet and contest the shot in what is essentially one motion, ignoring the physical body of Curry and sliding into position. What should have been an open or at most lightly contested shot registered as heavily contested.



There was no penalty for the defender's momentum. While I do understand that every single step may not be accounted for, things like this shouldn't happen. There needs to be a sense of momentum and weight, and the footplanting is a big part of that.

I think its also how slow and dramatic some offense animations are. Colin was able to take several steps to Currys 1 stepback

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

To be fair, Colin isn't exactly sprinting in this clip. He kinda slows down once he's behind Curry, then when you stepped back when he was behind you, he's able to get in front and jump.

Thats actually something I didn't like about 2k18. People would be sprinting and stopping and changing direction with almost no penalty to their speed on offense, but defenders would have to change direction in slow motion because if you pressed RT to move quickly you couldn't change direction without slowly stopping first. Its what allowed all the blowbys and snatchbacks to work so well

In any case, the improved shot contest system means that people standing around you doesn't count as a contest anymore, so in the very least, if you get this shot off without Colin jumping, it'd be registered as open

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I don't know if doing a step back when someone is trailing you should have resulted in anything drastically different here....even if every single step was accounted for. Question: Where should Sexton have ended up in your opinion? I could see the argument for a collision maybe?

I agree in general on footplanting though, they should always strive to improve...but the worst part of that clip to me is that it was considered Heavily Contested...you were flicking your wrist pretty much before he got up....that's been vastly improved, but I guess this was a case of it not registering correctly.

I will say, as much footplanting talk as there has been, it's pretty well respected in the 1v1 aspect of the game, even on Hall of Fame. Theres a lot less reliance on suction...which even games with superior footplanting still struggle with..

[HustlaCJ]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

No offense, but this was a terrible example...this was a horrible offensive play/bball iq decision in this situation and 2k usually punishes that (even with a sliding defender)...

The moment you got by Sexton Love came to pick you up and Draymond cut to the basket..instead of dishing the ball..you did a STEP BACK in the direction of the defender who was already gaining on you..that was a bad shot and even in real life would've been contested and gotten anyone other than an elite PG benched next to the coach for a few plays...

[El_Poopador]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I don't know if doing a step back when someone is trailing you should have resulted in anything drastically different here....even if every single step was accounted for. Question: Where should Sexton have ended up in your opinion? I could see the argument for a collision maybe?

I agree in general on footplanting though, they should always strive to improve...but the worst part of that clip to me is that it was considered Heavily Contested...you were flicking your wrist pretty much before he got up....that's been vastly improved, but I guess this was a case of it not registering correctly.

I will say, as much footplanting talk as there has been, it's pretty well respected in the 1v1 aspect of the game, even on Hall of Fame. Theres a lot less reliance on suction...

I would expect either a foul (Sexton running into Curry), or him being out of position to defend the shot, and having to essentially stretch backwards to get a hand up since his momentum is carrying him forward.

Basically, he should have overpursued (for lack of a better word), and had to stop and kind of dive back to get a hand up.

Basically, this:

Defender gets beat and has to sprint to catch up. Harden hits him with a stepback, and the defender runs past him. He has to plant his feet to try and defend the shot, because his momentum is carrying him forward.


Then, because he had so much forward momentum, the most he could do is stretch back and throw a hand in the air, even though he really isn't close enough to put up a good contest.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

No offense, but this was a terrible example...this was a horrible offensive play/bball iq decision in this situation and 2k usually punishes that (even with a sliding defender)...

The moment you got by Sexton Love came to pick you up and Draymond cut to the basket..instead of dishing the ball..you did a STEP BACK in the direction of the defender who was already gaining on you..that was a bad shot and even in real life would've been contested and gotten anyone other than an elite PG benched next to the coach for a few plays...

Green didn't cut until after I started the stepback, and Love retreated the second that happened. It would have been a turnover.

In any case, I wasn't playing very seriously by any means. I was testing the game to see how it would handle the momentum, and if there had been any improvement in the psychic defenders, while still getting a feel for the different controls.

Smart shot or not, the bottom line is that Sexton should not have been able to get back into position to contest that shot the way he did.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I would expect either a foul (Sexton running into Curry), or him being out of position to defend the shot, and having to essentially stretch backwards to get a hand up since his momentum is carrying him forward.

Spoiler

Basically, he should have overpursued (for lack of a better word), and had to stop and kind of dive back to get a hand up.

Basically, this:

Defender gets beat and has to sprint to catch up. Harden hits him with a stepback, and the defender runs past him. He has to plant his feet to try and defend the shot, because his momentum is carrying him forward.


Then, because he had so much forward momentum, the most he could do is stretch back and throw a hand in the air, even though he really isn't close enough to put up a good contest.

I'll definitely give you the foul (not sure if we're there yet)...but in a situation where your stepping back into his path, negating the momentum...I dont have a huge issue with this play...its not pretty but I dont know if it's the best footplanting example. I think this situation is what the "jail" function is for. If you had stepped back out of his way (like the Harden play) and he somehow recovered for a contest that'd be another issue..

[sudanmalkovich]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

pet peeve of mine.

upper and lower body always move in the same direction. that's the problem.

[Chemthethriller]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I would expect either a foul (Sexton running into Curry), or him being out of position to defend the shot, and having to essentially stretch backwards to get a hand up since his momentum is carrying him forward.

Basically, he should have overpursued (for lack of a better word), and had to stop and kind of dive back to get a hand up.

Basically, this:

Defender gets beat and has to sprint to catch up. Harden hits him with a stepback, and the defender runs past him. He has to plant his feet to try and defend the shot, because his momentum is carrying him forward.


Then, because he had so much forward momentum, the most he could do is stretch back and throw a hand in the air, even though he really isn't close enough to put up a good contest.

The difference in this and the 2k19 example is Harden is setting up the drive from further out, and has more ability to pick up speed compared to this example where Sexton is out of position but at the same time Curry isn't moving to quick which is slowing Sexton's overall speed and thus he's not in a sprint and ultimately not going to end up too far out of position.

Also, looking back at 18 you could easily use someone's momentum against them with a snatch back, but the issue is that the move is so repeatable and very abuse able that it has to be nerfed. Hopefully doing a snatch back this year while someone is sprinting along side you still allows you to get a shot off if they don't react quick enough to the stopping of your player.

[Dione2014]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I know this has been talked about at length, and it's been stated that footplanting is sacrificed for smoothness, but I still feel like the end goal should still be realism.

This happened last night. I got by Sexton with Curry, and Love was waiting for me in the paint. I opted to use Sexton's momentum against him and go with a stepback, knowing how quick Curry's release is (and that 2k seems to have gotten that quick release right this year).

Instead of him running past me and throwing a hand up, he is able to get around me, change directions, and get off his feet and contest the shot in what is essentially one motion, ignoring the physical body of Curry and sliding into position. What should have been an open or at most lightly contested shot registered as heavily contested.



There was no penalty for the defender's momentum. While I do understand that every single step may not be accounted for, things like this shouldn't happen. There needs to be a sense of momentum and weight, and the footplanting is a big part of that.

I agree with you on all of this. It's a problem and it has been for a long time. Sliding into position is never cool and it's an eyesore. With that said... we're years away from getting that portion of the game correct without sacrificing control.


Czar once said the more the game respects foot planting the more sluggish and non responsive the game starts to feel. NBA live tried to do this upon coming into nextgen back then (xbox 360). It felt terrible,All the issues Czar mentioned would come up were present in that game. Unresponsive, snappy awkward looking animations, and overall sluggish gameplay.


The other basketball game tries to follow these rules of foot planting and realistic momentum, Stiff and non responsive is the first thing that comes out of people's noise holes the second the get it in their hand, and in most cases before. So i believe It just can't be done right given the resources at devs disposal Of course i could be wrong, but it's just my honest opinion.

[eko718]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I don't know if doing a step back when someone is trailing you should have resulted in anything drastically different here....even if every single step was accounted for.

My initial thought as well.

[sudanmalkovich]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

Nah.. Live 19 has better foot planting (at least on defense). it's nowhere close to being stiff and it's very responsive.

EA's using human IK (inverse kinematics) in their animation that's why they don't slide unlike 2k.

It is responsive cuz there's no sliding and warping.

[2kVetRespect]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

No offense, but this was a terrible example...this was a horrible offensive play/bball iq decision in this situation and 2k usually punishes that (even with a sliding defender)...

The moment you got by Sexton Love came to pick you up and Draymond cut to the basket..instead of dishing the ball..you did a STEP BACK in the direction of the defender who was already gaining on you..that was a bad shot and even in real life would've been contested and gotten anyone other than an elite PG benched next to the coach for a few plays...

I agree 100%. This is the same guy on the other thread talking that nonsense about defense.

The game hasnt even dropped yet and he is giving examples against A.I.

Wait until we include other variables such as online latency. That is the real test.

[JKSportsGamer1984]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I agree with you on all of this. It's a problem and it has been for a long time. Sliding into position is never cool and it's an eyesore. With that said... we're years away from getting that portion of the game correct without sacrificing control.


Czar once said the more the game respects foot planting the more sluggish and non responsive the game starts to feel. NBA live tried to do this upon coming into nextgen back then (xbox 360). It felt terrible,All the issues Czar mentioned would come up were present in that game. Unresponsive, snappy awkward looking animations, and overall sluggish gameplay.


The other basketball game tries to follow these rules of foot planting and realistic momentum, Stiff and non responsive is the first thing that comes out of people's noise holes the second the get it in their hand, and in most cases before. So i believe It just can't be done right given the resources at devs disposal Of course i could be wrong, but it's just my honest opinion.

I hear you but that doesn't excuse players sliding into position to receive passes without moving their feet. That has nothing to do with control. That's a programming issue.

Now when you're dribbling or doing certain animations then the lose control argument makes a little sense but not when you're simply inbounding the ball & the player receiving the pass slides about 5 feet into position to receive the pass. Or players on the perimeter sliding into position to receive passes. I really wish they would at least fix that. It's been happening since 2K14 smh.