Footplanting and Momentum

[El_Poopador]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

Looks to me that he had 2 full steps to slow down after you stopped your momentum. In your 2nd example How many do you want him to take?

He didn't slow down though; he went from full sprint to full stop. That's the issue. There is no penalty for the momentum he had going forward.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

exactly... there are alot of folks acting delusional because the other game emphasized foot planting.
"look how could he stop on a dime". "look he recovered to quickly", "look the defender is floating".

if you all want slower reactions they are in the sliders. slow down lateral quickness and player movement sliders.

2k16 and titles before that had great foot planting. again sacrifices were made for responsiveness and smoothness.

foot planting is a mess in the other game in alot of situations.

I just want realistic reactions based on momentum and physics. A guy should not be able to change directions on a dime from a full sprint, period. I said I'm fine with the animations not showing proper footplanting as long as the outcome is realistic.

[Baebae32]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

He didn't slow down though; he went from full sprint to full stop. That's the issue. There is no penalty for the momentum he had going forward.

Did you not go from full sprint to full stop? My point is that he had time to react to you stopping your momentum. Its not not like you both stopped at the same time.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

Did you not go from full sprint to full stop? My point is that he had time to react to you stopping your momentum. Its not not like you both stopped at the same time.

Right, but I actually had to slow down and plant my foot to do it. He went from full sprint to defensive stance facing the opposite direction without slowing down. Look at my first example above. That was a more realistic stop; he had to actually plant his feet in order to stop his momentum. In the second one, he didn't have to do that.

[GK_11]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

To me your first video is different than the next two.

1 - You stepped back into the path of the defender. Instead of a collision, he simply is slowed down, and able to get a good contest. The game is compensating for collision detection and foot planting by sliding Sexton around you the same way the invisible wall slides you in an RPG when you run up against it an angle. Not pretty for sure.

2 - Perfectly executed on your part, feels like you have a defender on a string, forced to change directions 2 times in a couple seconds and hit the turbo to try and catch up - then you unexpectedly change direction a 3rd time, and move into the stepback. Splash.

3 - He is lightly jogging behind you on the break - the way athletic players do when they slow their pace to prepare for a gather on a chasedown. You slow down and stop - you are sprinting and dribbling, so it is more difficult for you to stop then him, who is under control.
He takes a step to change direction, gathers, and contests. I'm guessing lightly contested? Seems about right.


The biggest difference to me between why the stepback was effective in example 2, but less so in 1 & 3, is that Sexton is not really 'beat' in either of those examples - the help is there, he is not holding 'R2' and therefore suffering a smaller penalty to change of direction.

I'm not critiquing your skills on the sticks - just saying that it seems like when you made better moves based on the context of the situation, you got more open. Seems okay to me.

[El_Poopador]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

To me your first video is different than the next two.

1 - You stepped back into the path of the defender. Instead of a collision, he simply is slowed down, and able to get a good contest. The game is compensating for collision detection and foot planting by sliding Sexton around you the same way the invisible wall slides you in an RPG when you run up against it an angle. Not pretty for sure.

2 - Perfectly executed on your part, feels like you have a defender on a string, forced to change directions 2 times in a couple seconds and hit the turbo to try and catch up - then you unexpectedly change direction a 3rd time, and move into the stepback. Splash.

3 - He is lightly jogging behind you on the break - the way athletic players do when they slow their pace to prepare for a gather on a chasedown. You slow down and stop - you are sprinting and dribbling, so it is more difficult for you to stop then him, who is under control.
He takes a step to change direction, gathers, and contests. I'm guessing lightly contested? Seems about right.


The biggest difference to me between why the stepback was effective in example 2, but less so in 1 & 3, is that Sexton is not really 'beat' in either of those examples - the help is there, he is not holding 'R2' and therefore suffering a smaller penalty to change of direction.

I'm not critiquing your skills on the sticks - just saying that it seems like when you made better moves based on the context of the situation, you got more open. Seems okay to me.

In the third example, we were both in full sprint. He was actually going faster than I was, which is part of the reason I did the stepback.

[JoFri]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

EI, I think the missing animation here is the foot planting part. Sexton reacting to your sudden stop is just a normal "stop" and "continue" animation. If 2K can add in that "using the foot" to stop animation and slow down in half second, the whole should work out fine.

I think they did implemented it well for the ankle breaking animations.


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[NINJAK2]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

EI, I think the missing animation here is the foot planting part. Sexton reacting to your sudden stop is just a normal "stop" and "continue" animation. If 2K can add in that "using the foot" to stop animation and slow down in half second, the whole should work out fine.

I think they did implemented it well for the ankle breaking animations.


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Yep. I like to call those "defensive stutter steps". This could already be the case in 2k19 but if not 2k20 really needs to spend more time on adding/motion capturing defensive animations. I feel the success of my career/park has really shifted their priority on adding more and more offensive animations...

[tril]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I just want realistic reactions based on momentum and physics. A guy should not be able to change directions on a dime from a full sprint, period. I said I'm fine with the animations not showing proper footplanting as long as the outcome is realistic.

you dont seem to factor contextual situation, defensive player awareness, or reaction time.
In most situations defensive players do react in time or slightly late to the point where a blocking foul would be called.
yes defenders get beat, but rarely do their momentum takes them out of a play completely, and rarely do players run full on sprint to get back in position or into a play unless its a fast break chase down situation.

the defensive player seems to be in the play though he was beat.

[JoFri]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

you dont seem to factor contextual situation, defensive player awareness, or reaction time.

In most situations defensive players do react in time or slightly late to the point where a blocking foul would be called.

yes defenders get beat, but rarely do their momentum takes them out of a play completely, and rarely do players run full on sprint to get back in position or into a play unless its a fast break chase down situation.



the defensive player seems to be in the play though he was beat.

player ratings have to be factored in, for sure. Compare James Harden's defense recovery to Kawhi Leonard ... oh haha
Perhaps 2K can just add in Harden's "dare him to shoot" animation, that will be awesome




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[Cavs2016]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

This is a play that is possible in youth basketball. But at the highest level of the sport you don’t see this.

This is a terrible showcase of the sharp, explosive athleticism you see in the NBA.

You live and die by your foot steps in basketball. In 2k, they have a ton of sliding and skating to avoid those dynamics.

Everything on offense looks slow, unnatural and awkward. The defense just as bad if not worse.

Go rewatch game 1 of the nba Finals.

2nd possession of the game Bron steals from KD, and runs down the court to the left wing and receives the ball back.

Bron subtly shifts his body weight left to get Draymond leaning and then takes a long, explosive first step to beat Draymond inside right to the hole. Simple, effective, efficient footwork.

2nd quarter Bron palms the ball up top in his right hand, his feet parallel. Draymond is in his stance funneling Bron toward the right. Bron sees the help defense (David west) out of position, brings his left foot behind him and then explodes to the rim in a few steps. Efficient, smart, explosive footwork.

2nd quarter Bron receives a pass on the right wing. Jordan bell starts closing in, Bron does a smooth pumpfake to draw his momentum further out, and then Bron drives to the rim.

And in the clutch, LeBron continued to dominate the Warriors with his footwork. The warriors couldn’t stop LeBron from getting to the rim.

It was a footwork clinic put on my by LeBron. Beautiful display of basketball.

Can’t recreate any of that in 2k. Footplanting and momentum just so disregarded in the game. It takes away so much of the basketball feel.

[JoFri]

Footplanting and Momentum

I was hoping more examples coming in to address the issue on lack of footplanting and momentum, and hopefully 2K can get notice it.

I managed to track down this particular offball movement lacking of footplanting animation. In this clip, u'll see Sexton (AI) offball chasing Curry towards baseline. After Curry went passed Cousins at the post, he changed direction and cut back into the paint. Sexton just stopped instantaneously and stick to Curry conveniently on the opposite direction.



There should be some stop animation by way of one foot stopping the forward motion and body rotation to turn and continuse chasing Curry.


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[olajuwon34]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

One of the ugly things iv already noticed about the gameplay from videos, is theres times where a defender jumps, and then is synced into another jump animation before he even landed from his first jump, looks like it has something to do with how they have more collision animations for standing layups and driving layups, so sometimes it just syncs together the offensive player and defensive player into an animation, no matter what position the defender was in .3 of a second earlier.

[olajuwon34]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

This is a play that is possible in youth basketball. But at the highest level of the sport you don’t see this.

This is a terrible showcase of the sharp, explosive athleticism you see in the NBA.

You live and die by your foot steps in basketball. In 2k, they have a ton of sliding and skating to avoid those dynamics.

Everything on offense looks slow, unnatural and awkward. The defense just as bad if not worse.

Go rewatch game 1 of the nba Finals.

2nd possession of the game Bron steals from KD, and runs down the court to the left wing and receives the ball back.

Bron subtly shifts his body weight left to get Draymond leaning and then takes a long, explosive first step to beat Draymond inside right to the hole. Simple, effective, efficient footwork.

2nd quarter Bron palms the ball up top in his right hand, his feet parallel. Draymond is in his stance funneling Bron toward the right. Bron sees the help defense (David west) out of position, brings his left foot behind him and then explodes to the rim in a few steps. Efficient, smart, explosive footwork.

2nd quarter Bron receives a pass on the right wing. Jordan bell starts closing in, Bron does a smooth pumpfake to draw his momentum further out, and then Bron drives to the rim.

And in the clutch, LeBron continued to dominate the Warriors with his footwork. The warriors couldn’t stop LeBron from getting to the rim.

It was a footwork clinic put on my by LeBron. Beautiful display of basketball.

Can’t recreate any of that in 2k. Footplanting and momentum just so disregarded in the game. It takes away so much of the basketball feel.

I remember that game, Lebron dominated a team of all stars, and got robbed by some bad calls at the end, i cant remember what they were exactly. But it showed the true colors of golden state players, they whine and complain when things really have a chance to go bad for them. I mean, the team that is known as the top team and all their recent championships ,with winning records, first or second usually in conference etc, all that stuff, also has players and a coach with some of the most technical fouls in the league, showing the amount they complain and whine about things.

[ParisB]

Re: Footplanting and Momentum

I remember that game, Lebron dominated a team of all stars, and got robbed by some bad calls at the end, i cant remember what they were exactly. But it showed the true colors of golden state players, they whine and complain when things really have a chance to go bad for them. I mean, the team that is known as the top team and all their recent championships ,with winning records, first or second usually in conference etc, all that stuff, also has players and a coach with some of the most technical fouls in the league, showing the amount they complain and whine about things.

Lol, feel better now?

But I agree the footplanting can be a little wonky.