Player Movement - Lets have a serious discussion

[MrWrestling3]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetroDee4Three

So yeah, your shooting sliders are lower than HOF difficulty for the User (which I'm cool with). User is set to around 45 and CPU to around 55. So 40 on those might be tough for a User to stomach (especially a casual player). But, you are talking about realistic FG% for the CPU, so let's focus on that. Are you simming CPU vs CPU to test percentages? Or are you watching them play and seeing what they shoot? Sometimes the results vary depending. Also, we should test if this is good for User vs CPU as well, as that's the way the majority of people will play (or test it user vs user, and actually I could test that with my brother). Also, are you using my player movement sliders during these tests? My biggest focus was on that, but this is interesting to me. FYI - Just played a full game with body up sensitivity at 20 for CPU and User, and I felt like the suckling in was happening more, and I was getting caught more often on bodies (unrealistically). That's why I had it at 0, I'll do some more testing though Btw, If you want to decrease the number of steals, up ball handling and hands a tad. Put hands at around 60-65 and ball handling around the same level. It doesn't stop BODY steals, but players get pockets picked less.

The sliders are indeed a little low, the way it plays out is as long as you work for a good open shot you can still hit them at a good clip(75% ish),but trying to jack up bad quality shots or go up on 3 people won't really work out. With the lower body sliders it's actually easier to get your looks off of the actions in the playbook, which balances things a bit for human players.

I did use your movement sliders in conjunction,the only only change I made was CPU body up sensitivity at 30,I left User body up sensitivity at 0. I also learned that Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff), On Ball Defense, and Lateral Quickness sliders also contribute to the sticky feeling.Dropping those down some opened up movement even more.

I tested by watching CPU vs CPU games and I played vs CPU myself, I got good results from both. Team FG% was right around the 50% mark, and rebounds worked out almost dead in the middle of average rebounds in an NBA game.

Good call on the hands and ball handling sliders, I'll try upping those the next session and see what it affects.The real problem was on ball steals and intercepted passes so it should help.

[Dione2014]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetroDee4Three

Absolutely, the game is forcing you into directions a lot. Examples include : being sucked into defenders, forcing you into a layup animation when you are trying to pull up (even if it's like 18 ft out) etc. Combine that with the look and feel of the skating, the action can get ugly and the control can feel lost. I feel you pain on that Curry situation. For those who said that clipping or sliding (2K had to choose, so they went with sliding) that's not true at all, and I say that with all due respect. The clipping is just as bad in this game as it was in 2K17 and 2K18, I took screenshots of players literally going THROUGH other players, arms going through bodies, heads going through bodies, a lot of clipping in this game. The new motion system with 2K18 started the skating/floating issues. Intances occurred in other 2Ks, but it wasn't on every play and throughout the game. I think that some foot planting would go a long way in helping the visual appeal, but most important the control we have over the on court action. My sliders do really well to fix things like speed breaks, acceleration issues, poor pass speeds, and just the overall slow pace that the game is out of the box. But, the skating/sliding/floating issues are part of the game engine, we can't do anything about those, sliders can't and won't be able to fix those problems. I'm actually enjoying the game a bit now that it has some life, but the skating issue is still seen a lot.

I'd have to actually respectfully disagree with you about the clipping. NBA 2K18 And 2K17 we're just the worse with clipping. I can deal with some clipping, But 18 was just out of hand. Now while 2K19 does have some player to player clipping. The ball is typically always live and rarely goes through players bodies. Now i have videos where the ball does clip, so it does happen, but it really isn't anywhere near as much as the 2 previous iterations.



With NBA 2K18 the CPU didn't even try to hide it. Just dribble right through your body. You could be stand directly in the defenders space clipping through him. I mean just faces clipping through faces before the game even thought about triggering some sort of protect animation. I was truly not only an eye sore, but it also through all basketball logic right out the window.

[TheDominator273]

Quote: Originally Posted by rockchisler

Dint forget to add the mario running( running in place when u hit another player). Has been my number 1 issue with this game it takes away from the realism Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Like this?

[jetsman92]

Quote: Originally Posted by MrWrestling3

The sliders are indeed a little low, the way it plays out is as long as you work for a good open shot you can still hit them at a good clip(75% ish),but trying to jack up bad quality shots or go up on 3 people won't really work out. With the lower body sliders it's actually easier to get your looks off of the actions in the playbook, which balances things a bit for human players. I did use your movement sliders in conjunction,the only only change I made was CPU body up sensitivity at 30,I left User body up sensitivity at 0. I also learned that Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff), On Ball Defense, and Lateral Quickness sliders also contribute to the sticky feeling.Dropping those down some opened up movement even more. I tested by watching CPU vs CPU games and I played vs CPU myself, I got good results from both. Team FG% was right around the 50% mark, and rebounds worked out almost dead in the middle of average rebounds in an NBA game. Good call on the hands and ball handling sliders, I'll try upping those the next session and see what it affects.The real problem was on ball steals and intercepted passes so it should help.

But the hands slider has more to do with deflections..
Even says so in the description of the slider

[RetroDee4Three]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dione2014

I'd have to actually respectfully disagree with you about the clipping. NBA 2K18 And 2K17 we're just the worse with clipping. I can deal with some clipping, But 18 was just out of hand. Now while 2K19 does have some player to player clipping. The ball is typically always live and rarely goes through players bodies. Now i have videos where the ball does clip, so it does happen, but it really isn't anywhere near as much as the 2 previous iterations. With NBA 2K18 the CPU didn't even try to hide it. Just dribble right through your body. You could be stand directly in the defenders space clipping through him. I mean just faces clipping through faces before the game even thought about triggering some sort of protect animation. I was truly not only an eye sore, but it also through all basketball logic right out the window.

No worries, we can disagree. I just know that I've played 2k17 more than you would believe, and it seems about the same in 2K19. Regardless, I don't think you or I care about that as much as other more important parts of the games make up.

I expect things like clipping to be in video games, this happens in pretty much all of them. And the fact that so much body contact exists in the NBA, it would be shocking if they found a way to eliminate clipping completely.

Either way, I'm enjoying the vibe in this thread, as it's been good conversation overall, people have been respectful to the topic and eachother. Couldn't ask for anything more than that, so thank you all.

I'm getting solid feedback on my YT videos and by a few people on the NLSC about my slider set, so that's encouraging.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Operation Sports mobile app

[RetroDee4Three]

Quote: Originally Posted by jetsman92

But the hands slider has more to do with deflections.. Even says so in the description of the slider

Good call.

I thought it had to do with hands, as in grip of the ball.

So disregard that one, but ball handling could help. I raised both of them in my test, and steals were lower, but it could have been a fluke.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Operation Sports mobile app

[JoFri]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetroDee4Three

Agreed on 2K18, it was the biggest let down I have had in sports gaming, especially since 2K17 (Pre January 2017 patch) was one of the better 2K's I had played. Granted, the game still had issues (SG/SF moving out of bounds when the ball was brought up, Pick n Roll exploit, brick wall defense). But overall, the foot planting was sound, the game was reactive, and the pace was solid and fun. When 2K18 came out, it introduced the new motion system which including a lot of strange animations going towards the hoop, skating all over the floor, and the infamous blow by issue (And terrible defense all around). It also introduced worse atmosphere, where the arenas were much darker than real life counterparts, and the courts had no life. I spent thousands of hours on 2K17, and I couldn't play 2K18 for 5 minutes without wanting to chuck the controller. Spoiler Just a slight correction (I have side by side videos to prove this), the skating was introduced as a COMMON occurrence in 2K18 (After being out of the series since 2K10). In past titles, you would get instances, but it wasn't all the time. It hasn't been a few years with the skating, it's been since the new motion system (So the last 2 games). The court spacing in Live 19 is awesome, and I post videos of both titles on my YT. I prefer the gameplay overall on Live, where they fall extremely short is depth. Can't use classic players offline, franchise mode is bare bones, customizations is limited. So for those who want to have variety, and don't want to just run with current teams, it's a big let down. Check out my YT channel and you will see my Live videos, I have a blast with the game overall. However, they are targeting the younger demographic (Per the dev team), and this is troubling, as targeting teenagers can work a bit while they are still teenagers, but what happens when they grow out of the "Street" phase, they won't give Live a look. 2K19 has improved over 2K18 in quite a few areas. Mostly, defense. The blow by exploit made it so you could run by anybody, with anybody, whenever you wants. You didn't even need to pull off moves, just push forward ont he joystick (Which is how the dude in the 2k sports league scored like 70 of his 84 points). The help defense and transition defense was also a disaster, and none of this could be fixed with sliders. THIS could be done on HOF with ease (The NBAtv scoreboard was a mod). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytwn0kBkpkU&t=12s So already, I am playing 2K19 more, because they curved the blow by issues, and defense issues, so you actually have to use basketball strategy to score. I am the epitome of an unbiased party, as I want the best for both gaming companies (EA and 2K), I want both of them to flourish and create great basketball games, because they will both make eachother better. Also with 2K19, the lighting has improved slightly, and the graphics overall on close-ups are unreal, they exceed the graphics of 2K18. But again, the biggest reason is the defense/blow by fix, as this year you don't have to "fake sim" to enjoy the game. In regards to you lurking, A lot more people are doing that this year. Best advice I can give is: If you have a console, download the demo of Live and the Prelude on 2K in order to get a feel for the gameplay, and if you have a buddy who owns 2K19, play it at his place first (I recommend my sliders in order for you to have a better feel/experience). But if you care about depth offline, and want classic players, more customization, a deep franchise, etc... AND you find that you enjoy the gameplay on 2K (Gives you more joy than frustration), I would go with 2K. Live does some things better. Namely: Foot planting, pace/flow, players move off the ball better, shots on the move are slightly better (Which I can't believe after Live 18). RPM did Live wonders, and I really like the game. However, it still suffers from a clunky post game (Where some of the robotic Live 18 animations are still present), and you don't feel like you have full control in the post because of it, it suffers still from rocket animations at times, it doesn't have camera relative controls (Which is a huge surprise), and the players lack explosion at times (John Wall can feel a bit too much like Raymond Felton). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg6NPHWORBk I own both, play both, upload videos of both. But what will have me playing 2K19 more is the depth, and Im on PC so I can mod the hell out of it.

I'm so glad I found someone enjoying 17 as I do. I shelved 18 with less than a month after purchase.
RetroDee4Three, can I check if yor sliders can differentiate player speed? I dont want Valanciunas and Bledsoe running down the court side by side.




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[El_Poopador]

I broke down and bought it for the XB1 since I'm not sure when I'll get my PC back up and running. They need to make player movement the #1 priority for 2K20, because it is absolutely atrocious this year.

I played a few games of My Career, and I literally couldn't do anything because my player was stuck in mud, and the CPU defender was sliding in front of me every time I got a step. Even when I would get open, they would close out too fast to take the shot, and because the game doesn't take momentum into account, I couldn't even take advantage of them closing out to drive past them; they just immediately shifted in front of me on a dime.