Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

[Dlee3]

If you are a online player, I'm sure you already noticed that 7 foot non/shooting and shooting bigs have these unrealistic quick/highjumping jumpshots. I can't recalled a shooter big to have a remotely close jump shot to the jump shot we are seeing online in NBA history. I believe its breaks the game.

If Bigs only have access to jump shot bases that resemble Joel Embiid, Dirk, Robert Horry, and etc. This would lead toward a realistic play style

[awg811]

Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

It’s not really the the speed or jump height of the shots that are the problem. It’s that 2k doesn’t balance their jumpshots evenly.
Some bases have bigger green release windows and are easier to time. That’s the reason that almost everyone uses the same bases.
It’s 2k’s fault!
Regardless of what jumpshot is used, the attributes of the player using them should be the determining factor in the success rate, not bases itself.
Again, this is 2k’s fault for making certain bases unequal to others.


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[Krucialist]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

It’s not really the the speed or jump height of the shots that are the problem. It’s that 2k doesn’t balance their jumpshots evenly.
Some bases have bigger green release windows and are easier to time. That’s the reason that almost everyone uses the same bases.
It’s 2k’s fault!
Regardless of what jumpshot is used, the attributes of the player using them should be the determining factor in the success rate, not bases itself.
Again, this is 2k’s fault for making certain bases unequal to others.


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You are not wrong about any of that, but I agree with the OP that it looks weird seeing bigs with small guard shooting packages. There’s a reason that bigs don’t get very high off the ground when they shoot, so it does look weird. If the jump shots were all balanced in terms of green window and such, it would still look weird.

How would you balance the releases anyways? I’ve thought about it but haven’t come to a solid conclusion on how to do it. You can’t just make all green windows the same size, because the release windows in general aren’t the same size, as faster shots have smaller windows in total. If all green windows are the same size, then faster releases would have proportionately larger green windows. If the size of the green window scales with the total window size, then long releases would have the advantage with larger green windows.

Now if greens weren’t automatic, there wouldn’t be a balance problem....

[awg811]

Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

You are not wrong about any of that, but I agree with the OP that it looks weird seeing bigs with small guard shooting packages. There’s a reason that bigs don’t get very high off the ground when they shoot, so it does look weird. If the jump shots were all balanced in terms of green window and such, it would still look weird.

How would you balance the releases anyways? I’ve thought about it but haven’t come to a solid conclusion on how to do it. You can’t just make all green windows the same size, because the release windows in general aren’t the same size, as faster shots have smaller windows in total. If all green windows are the same size, then faster releases would have proportionately larger green windows. If the size of the green window scales with the total window size, then long releases would have the advantage with larger green windows.

Now if greens weren’t automatic, there wouldn’t be a balance problem....

I don’t disagree with you or the OP either. However, Kevin Durant is 7’0”, would his jumpshot be for a big or a small? What package would a 6’10 shooter use? Would 6’10” shooter get different packages than a 6’10” post scorer? What is the cutoff point?
Green releases do seem to be the biggest reason for the problem, however, if all green windows were the same default size (very small) and scaled larger depending on attributes, that could help solve the issue.
Example, if a pure lock tried to use a fast release jumpshot their window would be extremely small due to that fact that their shot rating is so low, it would be difficult to hit the window. If a pure sharp used that same base, their green window would be much bigger because their shot rating would increase that green window.
If that makes sense, it could solve the issue of having non-shooters using quick release jumpshots and force them to use slower release shots. I don’t really know what could solve the height of the jumpshot though.
The most used jumpshot, at least that I see, is LaMarcus Aldridge. It’s a fast base and Aldridge is a big, so saying the big men don’t have high jumping fast release jumpshots seems to be incorrect in the first place.
Again pointing to the idea that it’s a green release window balancing issue that 2k doesn’t seem concerned to address.


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[jyoung]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

The "Aldridge" shooting form that's been overpowered in 2K for several years now bears little resemblance to how LA shoots the ball in real life. It should have been deleted from 2K's jump shot archive years ago.

The SF, PF, and C positions shouldn't have access to any jumpshots faster than 500 ms.

The Aldridge base is 450 ms and lets your character jump super high in the air, which is what makes it so cheesy.

Durant's jumpshot is 535 ms, for comparison.

[Dlee3]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

The "Aldridge" shooting form that's been overpowered in 2K for several years now bears little resemblance to how LA shoots the ball in real life. It should have been deleted from 2K's jump shot archive years ago.

The SF, PF, and C positions shouldn't have access to any jumpshots faster than 500 ms.

The Aldridge base is 450 ms and lets your character jump super high in the air, which is what makes it so cheesy.

Durant's jumpshot is 535 ms, for comparison.

Yeah LA shot definitely have to get reworked!

If they do only allow "500ms" or slower shots for those positions that would def be in the right direction toward sim play style.
I don't think 2k will be able standardize green releases for every jump shots, there are too many variable. UNLESS they are able to patch the jumpshots daily

[Chemthethriller]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

"Green" releases have ruined the perception of realistic shooting. Players should only be rewarded with shot feedback based on attributes, the selection of shot and the timing of release. All of that still shouldn't automate success (100%), but increase the likelihood of it. You shouldn't know a shot is going in before it actually does lol.

Green releases should only correlate to excellent timing, but never automate a bucket.

Back to the topic. If developers want this game to resemble anything derative of real life basketball then YES, bigs should only receive a limit of bases.

Physically speaking--bigger, heavy set players usually don't put more legs into their shot, because of their overall size & strength in proportion to the size of the ball & the distance from the hoop.

If green releases are here to stay, 2K will somehow have to make the window of timing the same for all forms...

Which would be impossible (as previous poster has just said) now that we can create jump shots w/"faster, normal, or slower" releases. It really wouldn't matter what bases you have because of that element alone. There's too many factors when it comes to the success of shooting in 2K, though.

Durant is an exception. There aren't many players who are 6'11", 230-235 lbs., but extremely agile, yet deceptively strong, and can't palm a basketball (the size of your hands matter a lot when shooting, which a lot of people forget and something 2K obviously doesn't consider. But that's besides the point lol).

The green window itself should be the same millisecond length wise across the board though. Whether it hits at 550-555ms or 410-415ms, they should all be very very short windows. We have by far too many green releases in the game to where it's at the point that sharpshooters that are open do nothing but hit greens it feels like.

[awg811]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

The green window itself should be the same millisecond length wise across the board though. Whether it hits at 550-555ms or 410-415ms, they should all be very very short windows. We have by far too many green releases in the game to where it's at the point that sharpshooters that are open do nothing but hit greens it feels like.

This is the point that I was trying to make earlier.
All shots (bases) should have the same size window and that window can grow depending on Shooting attributes/ratings.
I’m not sure that I was understood in my comment.
I don’t know why that would mean that 2k would have to adjust bases daily.

Side note that I think is a similar issue with 2k.
I was watching an interview with an Ex-Madden developer and he stated that Madden, and I assume 2k as well, won’t spend the time to rework broken gameplay features because they can’t market them and they would take too much time to fix.


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[awg811]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

I was just thinking that. It should be a very small regardless of the base/form; I'd say anything past 510ms. The problem, though, might be using slower timed releases (instead of normal/quick) to help simplify the chance of landing on the window.

I don’t think that it would be a problem because you would need more space and time to get the shot off uncontested.
The problem is greens being 100% makes and being able to green contested shots.



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[Chemthethriller]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

I was just thinking that. It should be a very small regardless of the base/form; I'd say anything past 510ms. The problem, though, might be using slower timed releases (instead of normal/quick) to help simplify the chance of landing on the window. Being able to max out your attributes and use badges to "surpass" 100 isn't going to help either. No player is perfect so that logic was ridiculous lol.

That's like saying if a maxed out shooter (100) can go to the gym w/a perfectly timed release, they can make the shot 1000/1000 times (and know it is before a shot is even taken lol).
In the same token, that's also saying the worst shooter (0), even with the best timing, will never make a shot.
That lacks complete realism. There's ALWAYS a possibility of making or missing a shot--depending on the shot of course. So 0 (in this case "25") or 100 should be unattainable.

Well I agree with you, I don’t think green releases should be in the game at all, but if they are the window should be like 1ms for all jumpers ensuring it being rare.

The ratings come into play when a non green release are hit.

100 rating shouldn’t equal 100% either, it should equate like 45%, with a 25 rating equating about a 10% chance to make a 3.

[Chemthethriller]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

That's true, assuming the paragon is Curry, Petrovic, Reddick, Korver, or Kerr-like (41-49%).
Maybe you could say 50% is the threshold that equates a 99 or 100.

I'm pretty sure 2KTV did a poll a few weeks ago and most believe openness (which is crazy) should translate to the best shot success, so shooting is getting elementary at this point.

I’d almost leave it at 45% and allow takeover to push someone to 50-55%

[Bulletproof86]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

I dont know exactly what to say about shooting.
I think attributes should matter more then a base of a jumpshot.
Its ridiculous how non shooting archetypes splashing all the 3s with a green animation.
I mean a pure sharp or strecth is supposed to be to hit his shots at a high level....


BUT the more important thing is ballhandling, speed, strength and all that stuff...
A pure sharp or stretch is made for catch and shoot and nothing more...
why they never loose a ball, why they can dribble like a playmaking guard?
Why they have a defensive stopper in their build?
These things makes me angry and not their bases for the jumpshot and their succes to hit 3s at a high level...

[Korrupted]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

This discussion has popped up a couple times over the last few years. I think Bigs should be able to access all bases but maybe 2k can adjust timing/speed of the bases to make it tad bit slower for them?

6'4 have access to Very Quick releases. Bigs release timing should be no quicker than Normal, maybe?

I think focus should be on ratings than a base but 2k never seems to get it right.

[Dlee3]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

This discussion has popped up a couple times over the last few years. I think Bigs should be able to access all bases but maybe 2k can adjust timing/speed of the bases to make it tad bit slower for them?

6'4 have access to Very Quick releases. Bigs release timing should be no quicker than Normal, maybe?

I think focus should be on ratings than a base but 2k never seems to get it right.

I know this is a video game but this something that should be like its real life counterpart. big men should not have jump-shots that have them jumping high or/and quick

[Korrupted]

Re: Should bigs only get certain jumpshots?

I know this is a video game but this something that should be like its real life counterpart. big men should not have jump-shots that have them jumping high or/and quick

I definitely agree. Looks like somebody got Mike Wang attention about this very topic. It'll be intersting to see if any changes are made next year.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was actually asking what they thought the height cutoff should be to get the more athletic jump shot bases if we decided to limit bigs, that were above that cutoff, to only set shots.</p>&mdash; Mike Wang (@Beluba) <a href="https://twitter.com/Beluba/status/1128105142706888704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
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