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Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

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Old 06-27-2019, 06:26 AM   #1
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Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

Is it time for 2k to Redefine Diffculty Levels? I believe so because with the HOF sliders this year and a 2k developer (da czar) stating that you won't get the most realistic experience out it, what was the point of the sliders in the game.

I believe sliders should be based off contextual arena. Is it multiplayer or single player. If it is single player, there should be a heavy emphasis on Diffculty customization to tune the experience to your likening since you're playing the A.I.

With online head to head (multiplayer), sliders should be universal and less dynamic and that's even with the customization in online lgs. The main goal should be to maximize on the most realistic experience possible in a user to user play. As da cZar put it, there is a range between good and bad amongst players within the LG and the setting used in multiplayer should heavily emphasize on maximizing that range amongst the players in the game based on ratings. In other words, the game should look more like what you see in real life (free flowing action) and less like a exploitative gimmick that doesn't reward nothing less than perfect timing and only glitch post animations for consistent scores.

Ive been playing the 2k series for 20 years and it's time to finally finish off the exploits we have left. Put the control back in the user hands
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:33 PM   #2
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kVetRespect
Is it time for 2k to Redefine Diffculty Levels? I believe so because with the HOF sliders this year and a 2k developer (da czar) stating that you won't get the most realistic experience out it, what was the point of the sliders in the game.

I believe sliders should be based off contextual arena. Is it multiplayer or single player. If it is single player, there should be a heavy emphasis on Diffculty customization to tune the experience to your likening since you're playing the A.I.

With online head to head (multiplayer), sliders should be universal and less dynamic and that's even with the customization in online lgs. The main goal should be to maximize on the most realistic experience possible in a user to user play. As da cZar put it, there is a range between good and bad amongst players within the LG and the setting used in multiplayer should heavily emphasize on maximizing that range amongst the players in the game based on ratings. In other words, the game should look more like what you see in real life (free flowing action) and less like a exploitative gimmick that doesn't reward nothing less than perfect timing and only glitch post animations for consistent scores.

Ive been playing the 2k series for 20 years and it's time to finally finish off the exploits we have left. Put the control back in the user hands
I was just thinking something like this myself.IMO instead of the difficulty coming from essentially overpowering the CPU and forcing the human player to rely increasingly on cheese(i.e.video gaming skills),it should come from becoming increasingly more realistic, forcing the human player to rely more and more on knowledge of the game of basketball rather than simply knowing what animations to exploit.

Basically it would break down to:

Pro= Your standard video gaming experience.

All Star= A balance between video gaming and realism.Would both teach and require a knowledge of the basic fundamentals of the real game of basketball.Good starting spot for those wanting to learn the mental side of the game.

Superstar= Mostly realistic with a touch of CPU assistance.For those that master the fundamentals but are not quite ready for full realism yet.Intermediate level knowledge and techniques taught and required.

HoF= The fully sim experience.For those that want their basketball as real as possible.Advanced level techniques introduced and required to perform well.

Online would probably stay reasonably similar(possibly tweaked slightly to account for online lag)...Park and My Team would be on Pro,JRC on All Star or Superstar, and Pro Am on HoF; PNO would have lobbies filtered by difficulty, MLO it would be 100% up to the players involved.

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Old 07-02-2019, 01:30 PM   #3
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

I think the higher the difficulty, the smarter and more aggressive the CPU should play. CPU players should also play more true to themselves at higher difficulties. There shouldn't be an artificial boost to attributes such as +5 (speed, vert, steals, etc.)
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:37 PM   #4
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

You guys are right of course, the main problem is that the task is quite simply very hard to do. Programming the AI to mimic how human being play and having the animation systems match up with that is obscenely difficult.

The other issue is a more cynical take in that there is too much revenue now coming from the online portion of the game to allow too great a level of failure for most of their consumer base because of incompetence. Players are just going to quit playing if they're shooting 35% from the field, 25% from 3pt range and committing 20 TOs a game because they don't actually know how to play basketball.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:52 PM   #5
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfsolo
You guys are right of course, the main problem is that the task is quite simply very hard to do. Programming the AI to mimic how human being play and having the animation systems match up with that is obscenely difficult.

The other issue is a more cynical take in that there is too much revenue now coming from the online portion of the game to allow too great a level of failure for most of their consumer base because of incompetence. Players are just going to quit playing if they're shooting 35% from the field, 25% from 3pt range and committing 20 TOs a game because they don't actually know how to play basketball.

People complain about doing that now and blame it on the devs so I don't see how it'd be any different lol


I personally think the difficulty levels are fine the way they are. Having All-Star/Superstar be the difficulty the devs think plays best is perfect. If it's too easy you can adjust the sliders or move up to Hall of Fame. I honestly believe some of you want Hall of Fame to be "default sim" so you can brag about it and feel superior to others who don't play on it. Just a personal opinion.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:08 PM   #6
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

Agreed. I like what MrWrestling3 is saying too. The higher the difficulty, the more sim the game should be. It shouldn't mean CPU sliders inflated and User's deflated either. Higher difficulty should just mean the CPU plays smarter, but still true to the players.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:30 PM   #7
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfsolo
You guys are right of course, the main problem is that the task is quite simply very hard to do. Programming the AI to mimic how human being play and having the animation systems match up with that is obscenely difficult.

The other issue is a more cynical take in that there is too much revenue now coming from the online portion of the game to allow too great a level of failure for most of their consumer base because of incompetence. Players are just going to quit playing if they're shooting 35% from the field, 25% from 3pt range and committing 20 TOs a game because they don't actually know how to play basketball.
It's kind of a catch 22...right now people complain that there isn't a realistic skill gap due to the game being based too much on how well you can "cheese" via animations,badges,etc.On the other hand you are quite likely right that many would struggle exactly as you described then would complain that the game is "too hard".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BA2929
People complain about doing that now and blame it on the devs so I don't see how it'd be any different lol


I personally think the difficulty levels are fine the way they are. Having All-Star/Superstar be the difficulty the devs think plays best is perfect. If it's too easy you can adjust the sliders or move up to Hall of Fame. I honestly believe some of you want Hall of Fame to be "default sim" so you can brag about it and feel superior to others who don't play on it. Just a personal opinion.
That kind of happens already...some segments of the community tend to hold an attitude of "If you can't destroy the CPU on HoF, you're bad at 2K."

Honestly, I'd rather see there not even be "difficulty levels" per say, just more like a selection of definitive skill based play styles so that EVERYONE can just tailor their experience for actual fun both online and offline instead of feeling like they have to grind in some other mode in a way they probably don't enjoy just to not be punished VC wise.

Want to only play organized team ball? Cool....put it on full sim and hit up the Pro Am online.

Want to just hit some crazy dunks,threes,etc.? Also cool, you should be able to put in on a minimal sim mode, go to the Park.Maybe 2K could implement some sort of online competitive And 1 style street ball league in addition to what they already have going for people to do their thing.

Same with PNO, people should be able to match with other players looking for the same experience they are instead of relying on luck of the draw then hoping the other guy doesn't play in some way that ends up being more annoying than fun.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:18 AM   #8
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Re: Time to Redefine Diffculty Levels? Must Read!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfsolo
You guys are right of course, the main problem is that the task is quite simply very hard to do. Programming the AI to mimic how human being play and having the animation systems match up with that is obscenely difficult.

The other issue is a more cynical take in that there is too much revenue now coming from the online portion of the game to allow too great a level of failure for most of their consumer base because of incompetence. Players are just going to quit playing if they're shooting 35% from the field, 25% from 3pt range and committing 20 TOs a game because they don't actually know how to play basketball.

Shoot every time a new game comes out you should be shooting 35% and committing 20 turn overs imo because the game should have closed in on effective play styles.



I agree about attribute boosts, but I like high difficulty. It's unrealistic because everyone is performing above their regular standards, but if they didn't, then you would beat them every time. Back when sliders were like I'm gonna click down 3 point a few for each team to make the percentages more realistic. Maybe make one of three of those insane threes they are hitting on me miss.



It sucks to see some scrub post you up but think of it this way: assuming the core ratings are correct that's good d by you, forcing the cpu into an outcome that's not like Lebron driving for a lay in. Sure they make more than they should but... I don't understand how else difficultly should be measured. More successful and more vicious.


Talk about cheesing the cpu is a joke, same w the cpu cheesing you. It's playing the game optimally. That's the game. They need to continue to close those out but like for instance if the cpu can't guard a pick and roll but it makes 75% of their shots, that's stupid. If they can't be defended but you can trap them and steal the ball every time, that's stupid. Hall of fame should be hard. You can't make it any harder once it's set. You can make them make more shots but on hof it seems like they play with the confidence that they're gonna make those shots. Even if you click the shooting down to get more real percentages (but it kinda breaks the gm cuz the computer might be the one shooting 35% then.)



My pov.



Ever played civilization 5? Dunno how anyone can beat that stuff on deity. Or like on older cnc rts I could beat brutal but I have no idea how I did it. I'd get scraped now. Fighting games on hardest, etc. Some of us have just played so long it's not fair to give us a fair opponent Ai because we'll just eat it eventually (we will anyway but it'll take longer.) that's why there are a whole bunch of difficulties.



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