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Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

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Old 09-25-2019, 06:28 AM   #25
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

From what Mike Wang has said Inside Defense and Perimter Defense are now shot contest split into outside and inside. On ball defense now is based on physical attributes, lateral quickness and defensive badges.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:19 AM   #26
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavs2016
Way overrated: pat Bev
Way underrated: Alex Caruso

Also kawhi and PG are crazy overrated defensively as well

Also historically they need to bump Michael Jordanís defensive ratings down tenfold. That dude is a sorry defender compared to todayís defensive standards.

And lebronís perimeter defense was god awful last season. If he gets back to his 2016/2018 level an 87 makes sense but he was slow and stiff last season. Even pre-injury

I think curry is properly rated if you watch the games. Bigger players like Bron in 2k will abuse him. But curry irl is a very high IQ engaged defender with adequate physical tools. 70s is fine

Regarding MJ...
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:59 PM   #27
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoFri
Define isolation defense. What does it mean by 0.77 for bledsoe vs 1.07 (Jamal Murray)?
PPP = Points per Possession

Players defended by Bledsoe in Isolation scored at 0.77 Points per Possession (the average was 0.88).

Possession data differs from opponent's FG% in that it factors in fouls and turnovers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goma76
Exactly, the opponent must take a shot for counting.
Touching on the above, possessions end in more than just shot attempts.

Last edited by Real2KInsider; 09-25-2019 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:13 PM   #28
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

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Originally Posted by keshunleon
So just clarifying, the lower the number .73 is a better defender vice a poor defender 1.07?

According to Rashidi's numbers Rose is an elite defender and Murray is a terrible defender?
No.

Isolation defense is a very small chunk of PG defense. It makes up less than 10% of all these player's possessions.

Rose is a bigger PG (logged more mins at SG than PG in 2019) so he should be a more effective in Isolation. His athleticism/length made up for his lack of IQ when younger with Chicago. Simply looking at one area does not define whether a player is a good defender or not.

Derrick Rose (2019)
ON-BALL DEF
34% PnR: 1.01 PPP (168 poss) - 14th percentile
7% Post-Up: 0.56 PPP (32 poss) - 94th percentile
5% Isolation: 0.53 PPP (26 poss) - 96th percentile

OFF-BALL DEF
32% Spot-Up: 1.02 PPP (157 poss) - 49th percentile
10% Off-Screen: 0.92 PPP (49 poss) - 52nd percentile
8% Hand-Off: 0.76 PPP (41 poss) - 77th percentile

We can very clearly see Rose (in 2019) was an effective defender 1v1 but got abused in PnR. Probably has the biggest split in the league between his Iso/Post and PnR defense.

Last edited by Real2KInsider; 09-25-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:34 PM   #29
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrustie
Quality of competition is one of the biggest missing components.
While this is TECHNICALLY true, it isn't actually that big a deal as only quality players attempt Isolations nowadays.

2019 Sixers Isos
10% Jimmy Butler (SF): 1.00 PPP (119 poss)
10% Tobias Harris (PF): 0.98 PPP (167 poss)
8% Jonathan Simmons (SG): 0.90 PPP (31 poss)
6% Joel Embiid (C): 0.81 PPP (111 poss)
5% Ben Simmons (PG): 0.93 PPP (50 poss)
2% T.J. McConnell (PG): 1.00 PPP (10 poss)

It's not like defenders are padding their numbers against players who can't score. Especially at the PG spot.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:41 PM   #30
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashidi
While this is TECHNICALLY true, it isn't actually that big a deal as only quality players attempt Isolations nowadays.

2019 Sixers Isos
10% Jimmy Butler (SF): 1.00 PPP (119 poss)
10% Tobias Harris (PF): 0.98 PPP (167 poss)
8% Jonathan Simmons (SG): 0.90 PPP (31 poss)
6% Joel Embiid (C): 0.81 PPP (111 poss)
5% Ben Simmons (PG): 0.93 PPP (50 poss)
2% T.J. McConnell (PG): 1.00 PPP (10 poss)

It's not like defenders are padding their numbers against players who can't score. Especially at the PG spot.
I hear what youíre saying but how often do you think the Celtics allowed IT to get ISOíd on by anyone vaguely threatening? Itís hard for me to accept that heís a good iso defender, despite the numbers. The guy is a turnstile and his contest would barely register for a lot of shooters. He typically got easier assignments and they threw help like crazy whenever teams tried to isolate him. I feel like his numbers must be inflated by mediocre offensive players or shots late in the clock or something.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:42 PM   #31
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

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Originally Posted by Cavs2016
Also historically they need to bump Michael Jordanís defensive ratings down tenfold. That dude is a sorry defender compared to todayís defensive standards.
Statement is too hyperbolic, but understand the sentiment. Jordan in his 30s wasn't All-Time Great ELITE (Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, Gary Payton, etc) and that's where they have him rated as a defender. Ron Harper and Scottie Pippen took the tough defensive assignments and obviously Rodman did a bulk of work as well. He was DPOY in 1988, not 1998.

Jordan also played in an era filled to the brim with small/unathletic guards which enabled him to dominate on both ends. Nowadays that skill/size/athleticism is commonplace. Teams have had 20 years to figure out what made him so great.
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:30 PM   #32
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Re: Perimeter Defense Rating (NBA 2K20)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrustie
I hear what you’re saying but how often do you think the Celtics allowed IT to get ISO’d on by anyone vaguely threatening? It’s hard for me to accept that he’s a good iso defender, despite the numbers. The guy is a turnstile and his contest would barely register for a lot of shooters. He typically got easier assignments and they threw help like crazy whenever teams tried to isolate him. I feel like his numbers must be inflated by mediocre offensive players or shots late in the clock or something.
This really needs to be sent home. In 2016 IT registered 70 defensive Isolation possessions in 82 games. That's fewer than 1 possession per game. Whether he was elite/awful it's not reflective of his overall defensive value.

Isaiah Thomas (2016)
ON-BALL DEF
41% PnR: 0.73 PPP (329 poss) - 75th percentile
9% Isolation: 0.70 PPP (70 poss) - 80th percentile
8% Post-Up: 0.88 PPP (65 poss) - 46th percentile
OFF-BALL DEF
21% Spot-Up: 0.95 PPP (167 poss) - 57th percentile
8% Hand-Off: 1.00 PPP (65 poss) - 82nd percentile
7% Off-Screen: 0.84 PPP (57 poss) - 68th percentile

The Celtics were the 4th best defensive team in the NBA in 2016. IT played a team-high 2644 minutes. Clearly, he wasn't a turnstile.

Did Avery Bradley take his share of tough assignments? Sure. Clearly those secondary assignments weren't abusing IT.

Did he get more help schematically than the average player? Sure. It certainly didn't affect the team adversely.

At some point we need to give credit to the player. Effort was never the issue with IT (ditto Muggsy Bogues, Spud Webb, Nate Robinson, Earl Boykins, J.J. Barea, etc).

Data reflects results, not skill (which is what the rating is attempting to indicate). I'm certainly not claiming it's perfect, just a tool to help guide us to an acceptable answer. There are plenty of players who don't maximize their tools, and just as many get more out of what they have than they should.

One additional note is IT has barely played in the last two years due to his hip injury and likely can't play an acceptable level of defense anymore. His data as a result is incomplete and that's where an editor can step in and make a judgement call. I certainly wouldn't parade him out with an 85-90 rating simply due to the data.

Last edited by Real2KInsider; 09-25-2019 at 05:40 PM.
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