Get rid of the Rebounding Ratings (Def & Off) - MY Player

[splashmountain]

I realized why rebounding is so unrealistic on 2k and has been for some time. I use to think they over powered the badges(which they've done) or over powered rebounding builds in general(which has happened.)

But the real issue is how they see rebounding in the first place.

If you have a rebounding rating, to 2k devs it will mean the higher your reb rating is, the more rebs you should get per game.
The reason I know this is more the case than it is saying you have a better chance of having more rebs is due to how many rebs you see Float to the rebounding builds. The big did not have to go get it nor box out. just make sure you're some what close to the area and Bam, the ball pops into their hand. This happens often for rebounding bigs.

When in reality, the real reason certain guys get those boards have to do wit other abilities. like having a high vert, strong base, a quick vert, long arms, good box out principles. great understanding of where the ball bounces after a shot goes up. the idea of a worm badge, box out badge. should be a part of a players ratings. but those type of ratings should not be boosted or not boosted by the user when they create their guy. it should be earned as they play. thats more of a VIP system stat. that VIP system follows a lot of things you do in 2k on the court. they could add that to it. do you swim around other guys to get good position?

Do you box out to get good position?
if the answer is yes then raise that bar and keep raising as the user plays. if the user stops doing those things for 10+ games. start dropping the bar.

a players vert should remain, a players quickness/speed should remain. but worm/box out/ things of that nature should go with how you actually play. not given to you based on the arc you choose. doing so is only gifting rebounds to guys who are not that great at rebounding in reality. and its also taking away the ability to rebound for those bigs that chose other arcs even though they are fundamentally better rebounders by how they play the game.

this is how you stop the OP stuff we have today.

They gift too much to the user by choice of arc.

same with shooters if you ask me. oh so i take really bad shots but now that i have a shooter arc with a 90+ mid and 3pt shot. with badges. I'm hitting 3's from the Rec Logo with guys draped all over me. But when that other guy who has a 80 mid 80 3pt taking open looks or creating space can't make his shots consistently.

These types of ratings should be based on HOW you play, not which arc you choose.

Truth is, there should not be a choice to choose an arc at all. Everyone can choose their height & weight to some degree. and their position. after that, its all up to you what arc you end up becoming based on HOW YOU PLAY. No gifts and gimmes.

imagine the amount of variety you would see in players arcs if they were chosen only by how you played not by you picking your arc via a pie chart or graph. people dont realize this is why you have bigs that can really shoot the lights out but they are weak in the low post and suspect at defense. its because at some point in their lives they made a choice to work on shooting primarily and everything else is a distant 2nd or 3rd. this means they will become specialist at shooting but subpar at post work and defense. just like real life, it should be the same in the game. you want to work on everything and be well rounded. fine. you can do that too. but you're going to have to remember to use all of your tools most of the games you play to keep those ratings up in all of those categories.

you want your big to be a shooter. you start off with a 50 3pter, 60 mid range, 60 from the FT line. the more you release your shot at or almost perfect. the higher your ratings go up, the easier it becomes to hit greenish releases. wash, rinse, repeat. the more you brick, the lower your ratings will end up. you get in a cold streak, your ratings will drop for awhile until you break out of that. realistic. not gifted.

[ItchyNscratchy]

Wow another big man/rebounding hate thread from you again??

“If you have a rebounding rating, to 2k devs it will mean the higher your reb rating is, the more rebs you should get per game.”

This statement could be said about 3 point shooters also if a shooter has a high shooting rating the more shots you should make. And yes badges have been the ones to make your player better. Its all about how one utilizes all their badges. So you cant really say thats op the game literally lets you choose badges as opposed to older 2ks

[tru11]

I find rebounding builds to be quite useless unless they can dominate on the offense boards.

Can count on 1 hand the times one gave me fits in that regard...

Got a 7`0 C with max 76 rebounding.

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by ItchyNscratchy

Wow another big man/rebounding hate thread from you again?? “If you have a rebounding rating, to 2k devs it will mean the higher your reb rating is, the more rebs you should get per game.” This statement could be said about 3 point shooters also if a shooter has a high shooting rating the more shots you should make. And yes badges have been the ones to make your player better. Its all about how one utilizes all their badges. So you cant really say thats op the game literally lets you choose badges as opposed to older 2ks

read what i said about 3 pt shooters within this thread. i addressed them as well. and yes another thread about rebounding bigs.

do you realize rebounding bigs in this game are the mvps of the game? and shooters in a close 2nd.

a rebounders badged up and highly rated = 18 to 30 rebounds per game. with 8 to 10 assist per game (launch the ball down court for fast breaks after the rebound. rebound in half court and kick it back out for the open 3 since other teams will crash trying to help not realizing it wont matter. )

Just because you have a rebounding big does not take away the fact is beyond OP. It is and has been easy mode with these bigs. its the easiest to rank up with them, its the easiest takeover badge to turn on. it turns on the most often. its the easiest way to a high teammate grade. since its main job has nothing to do with scoring. you wont worry about the fact that bigs in general (unless they're highly rated post scorers, cant really score in the paint anymore until they patch that...if they patch it.) so yeah, rebounding bigs are the mvps of this years game period.

You give me a 99 rated rebounding big with all his badges and no shooters. I'll beat your team that doesnt have a rebounding big on it with shooters. because when you miss(you will) my guy will make sure its one and done for you. and when i miss, my big will make sure i get 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4 chances at it. In addition you will have to start sending more people to help your non rebounding big rebound. which takes away your ability to fast break. less fast breaks in 2k20 is darn near half of your points.

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by tru11

I find rebounding builds to be quite useless unless they can dominate on the offense boards. Can count on 1 hand the times one gave me fits in that regard... Got a 7`0 C with max 76 rebounding.

you obviously are not going up against guys that have any clue what they are doing. everyone knows that build is the op build. why on earth do you think you see so many of them? who in their right mind would pick a rebounding big that cant score just to grab 10 rebs? think about it tru. the game dropped and there were all sorts of bigs out there. The patches started coming in and people started badge glitching and overall ratings glitching to get their guys up. not everyone, but a lot of people did it. and people started to figure out, ok, bigs in general are suspect scorers on this game. thats the way 2k designed the game. forcing MOST bigs to just be role players, rebounders/ defenders and not much else. they get their assist from kick outs and long passes. thats about it. so if thats the case and you still want to choose a big. who would you choose? a reb big, why? because you dont have to work that hard to badge him up, get his overall up, nor get his takeover, nor have a good teammate grade. its the easiest build in the game hands down. you also dont have to work that hard at rebounding while playing. boards literally float to your hands. just jump. the game will allow them to jump from one side of the key to the next thru you to grab a rebound. the guys that actually have a clue on boxing out. oh boy, they will have 25 to 30 rebs. unless you too have a rebounding big.

it has little to do with skill and more to do with how they programmed this game. they did a lazy job with rebounding. which makes it easy to grab them with these builds , but makes it a bit more work with other builds, even if the rebounding person isnt all that great. they will intentionally make you tip rebs just because a rebounder is next to you, even if you have great position. it was bad in 19, its much worse now. again i have friends i play with, that have this same build. and every year they attempt to lie to themselves about how OP it isnt. and every time after a few weeks they agree "yeah..its Op. lol"

because it is. What i suggested in my original post was how to make rebounding more about skill and iq vs just gifting it to the user. i said the same for shooting.

Question Tru, do you play on xbox or ps? i play on xbox so maybe you play on ps. the rebounding for those rebounders that have their rebounding badges is laughable. straight jokes how they get a lot of those rebounds. completely unrealistic.

[BasketBalla21]

Quote: Originally Posted by splashmountain

If you have a rebounding rating, to 2k devs it will mean the higher your reb rating is, the more rebs you should get per game. The reason I know this is more the case than it is saying you have a better chance of having more rebs is due to how many rebs you see Float to the rebounding builds. The big did not have to go get it nor box out. just make sure you're some what close to the area and Bam, the ball pops into their hand. This happens often for rebounding bigs.

I'm pretty sure the rebound rating mainly effects the quality of animations you get for pressing the rebounding button on either side of the ball. I have experienced the ball choosing to stick to the better rebounder's hands in 50/50 situations but that's much better than they had it in previous years. In 2k18 I could get a full box-out on KAT and he would get an animation where would jump on my player's back and get the ball with no over-the-back foul being called. This year is much better.

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When in reality, the real reason certain guys get those boards have to do wit other abilities. like having a high vert, strong base, a quick vert, long arms, good box out principles. great understanding of where the ball bounces after a shot goes up.

Gotta disagree with what is bolded. That factor should be toned down dramatically. The best rebounders don't jump 40 inches in the air to grab them. That's the main problem with 2k's rebounding. Players jump too high all the time. It has been mitigated some this year with the speed nerfs on 7'3 big men and improved box out mechanics but more limitations are needed.

ex. Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, Reggie Evans, etc.

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the idea of a worm badge, box out badge. should be a part of a players ratings. but those type of ratings should not be boosted or not boosted by the user when they create their guy. it should be earned as they play. thats more of a VIP system stat. that VIP system follows a lot of things you do in 2k on the court. they could add that to it. do you swim around other guys to get good position?

I don't see the point in this. What's the difference in grinding for a badge and grinding for VIP stats? It makes more sense to just make it a badge(or a rating) so it's consistent with the main game.

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Do you box out to get good position? if the answer is yes then raise that bar and keep raising as the user plays. if the user stops doing those things for 10+ games. start dropping the bar.

There should never be a situation where you lose ratings in a game like this. It's grindy enough and just encourages 2k to put in more macro-transactions. Hot spots are a different story, but ratings need to stay consistent.

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this is how you stop the OP stuff we have today. They gift too much to the user by choice of arc.

Basketball is in essence a game of 5 archetypes playing against 5 archetypes. Until 2k understands how to base their archetypes on actual NBA superstars, less restrictions should be put in place instead of more.

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same with shooters if you ask me. oh so i take really bad shots but now that i have a shooter arc with a 90+ mid and 3pt shot. with badges. I'm hitting 3's from the Rec Logo with guys draped all over me. But when that other guy who has a 80 mid 80 3pt taking open looks or creating space can't make his shots consistently.

This is an over-exaggeration. And fundamentally a player with better shooting ratings should shoot better. 2k shooting is more about mastering your jumpshot than it is about ratings anyway. This just seems like whining to me.

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These types of ratings should be based on HOW you play, not which arc you choose. Truth is, there should not be a choice to choose an arc at all. Everyone can choose their height & weight to some degree. and their position. after that, its all up to you what arc you end up becoming based on HOW YOU PLAY. No gifts and gimmes.

That would absolutely kill MyPlayer. And how is an archetype a gimmy? You have to grind for ratings, rep, and badges in this game. It's no 9 to 5 but it is very time consuming. I've been playing since launch and I'm still 81 ovr. This mode is anything but a gimmy.

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imagine the amount of variety you would see in players arcs if they were chosen only by how you played not by you picking your arc via a pie chart or graph. people dont realize this is why you have bigs that can really shoot the lights out but they are weak in the low post and suspect at defense. its because at some point in their lives they made a choice to work on shooting primarily and everything else is a distant 2nd or 3rd. this means they will become specialist at shooting but subpar at post work and defense. just like real life, it should be the same in the game. you want to work on everything and be well rounded. fine. you can do that too. but you're going to have to remember to use all of your tools most of the games you play to keep those ratings up in all of those categories.

I have to question whether you are aware of the competitive scene in this game. Everyone does play the same. The comp players run play/sharp pgs and maneuver around HOF brick wall screens from their pure glass center. The pre-teens see how successful that strat is on a youtube video and model their playstyle around them.

Your system won't kill the trend. It will only make the grind harder for players that don't follow the meta.

What limit is there to building this VIP player profile? If I get too many assists and rebounds as a PG does that mean my shooting becomes limited? In this system I would naturally be more successful at getting rebounds and assists because my shooting would be at base level.

Is there no cap? If I can just eventually become elite at everything then the balance of the game goes down the toilet and defeats the very purpose of the system.

I've played games where you only get better at what you do and that ends up deciding your class upgrade path. Normally they are RPGs. In these systems if you make even one mistake your build is ruined and there are no resets. Putting that kind of system in 2k would be very attractive to Take-Two's shareholders, shelling out another $50 because you grabbed one too many rebounds with your sharpshooting point guard would make them many more millions, but the player-base would severely suffer for it.

[splashmountain]

Quote: Originally Posted by BasketBalla21

I'm pretty sure the rebound rating mainly effects the quality of animations you get for pressing the rebounding button on either side of the ball. I have experienced the ball choosing to stick to the better rebounder's hands in 50/50 situations but that's much better than they had it in previous years. In 2k18 I could get a full box-out on KAT and he would get an animation where would jump on my player's back and get the ball with no over-the-back foul being called. This year is much better. Gotta disagree with what is bolded. That factor should be toned down dramatically. The best rebounders don't jump 40 inches in the air to grab them. That's the main problem with 2k's rebounding. Players jump too high all the time. It has been mitigated some this year with the speed nerfs on 7'3 big men and improved box out mechanics but more limitations are needed. ex. Tim Duncan, Kevin Love, Reggie Evans, etc. I don't see the point in this. What's the difference in grinding for a badge and grinding for VIP stats? It makes more sense to just make it a badge(or a rating) so it's consistent with the main game. There should never be a situation where you lose ratings in a game like this. It's grindy enough and just encourages 2k to put in more macro-transactions. Hot spots are a different story, but ratings need to stay consistent. Basketball is in essence a game of 5 archetypes playing against 5 archetypes. Until 2k understands how to base their archetypes on actual NBA superstars, less restrictions should be put in place instead of more. This is an over-exaggeration. And fundamentally a player with better shooting ratings should shoot better. 2k shooting is more about mastering your jumpshot than it is about ratings anyway. This just seems like whining to me. That would absolutely kill MyPlayer. And how is an archetype a gimmy? You have to grind for ratings, rep, and badges in this game. It's no 9 to 5 but it is very time consuming. I've been playing since launch and I'm still 81 ovr. This mode is anything but a gimmy. I have to question whether you are aware of the competitive scene in this game. Everyone does play the same. The comp players run play/sharp pgs and maneuver around HOF brick wall screens from their pure glass center. The pre-teens see how successful that strat is on a youtube video and model their playstyle around them. Your system won't kill the trend. It will only make the grind harder for players that don't follow the meta. What limit is there to building this VIP player profile? If I get too many assists and rebounds as a PG does that mean my shooting becomes limited? In this system I would naturally be more successful at getting rebounds and assists because my shooting would be at base level. Is there no cap? If I can just eventually become elite at everything then the balance of the game goes down the toilet and defeats the very purpose of the system. I've played games where you only get better at what you do and that ends up deciding your class upgrade path. Normally they are RPGs. In these systems if you make even one mistake your build is ruined and there are no resets. Putting that kind of system in 2k would be very attractive to Take-Two's shareholders, shelling out another $50 because you grabbed one too many rebounds with your sharpshooting point guard would make them many more millions, but the player-base would severely suffer for it.

i see your points and i'm glad you raised them.

rebounding is based on all of the things i mentioned why did you single 2 of them out? and reggie evans does have long arms, he also as a super strong core/base and he also has the proper box out fundamentals. all of which i mentioned.
Reggie has like 3 of the things you need. he also has quick verts. if yoyu're 7 feet its not about jumping high, its about positioning. if you're in great position you will get that ball. If you're 6'9 going up against a 7 footer. you need to quickly position yourself, possibly be stronger than the 7 footer, and possibly need to jump quicker and also have long arms for your height to negate some of that big guys height.

I was a 6'2 guy in real life that could rebound with anyone. how was that possible?

I was taught how to box out

I could jump with the best of them (very good vert...never measured it but i hit my elbow on the backboard before..so you do the math)

I could jump quickly and reach my vert peak (I've seen guys that could jump even faster than me. those dudes are scary. you will get dunked.lol)

I had long arms for my height.

I also started to learn the angles the ball would bounce based on how a player would shoot or what type of shot he has(some guys have a soft shot that misses close to the basket. others have a harder shot that bounces crazy when they miss. some guys shoot with a side spin on the ball. its going to come off to the sides of the rim..etc.

and as thin as i was, you could say I had a very strong core for my weight/size.


i needed only one or two of these things when going up against short dudes(regular sized people 5'10 and under). i needed maybe 2 of these things when going up against guys my height that were average jumpers and had average arm length. but when i faced bigger/stronger/taller guys. i had to use all of those things. to get the job done.
and it would wear me out going up against those big boys. and this is key, it goes to your point about how you dont like how 2k guys jump to high ALL the time. you're right. that needs to be fixed as well. but how you fix that is this:

Do not nurf the ability or i should say dont nurf the animation. allow anyone who chooses to, to press RT and the jump button so they can jump as high as they want until...they run out of energy(stamina). this is key. this is why they never should've touched the stamina from the day one release. but that was only to keep the proper speeds and cut down on some of that over dribbling. i dont think 2k realizes how tiring it is to constantly go up for dunks or rebounds and have to really go up high ALL GAME LONG. thats taxing. it should show on my stamina bar. if i want to go that route..fine. but i better be super fatigued by the time the end the 3rd hits.

This is where the chess comes in. You go hard for 3 qtrs. and the user with the big boy big man, just does his job when he can. the rebounding numbers are close. maybe the short more athletic big is sitting on 10 rebounds in the 3rd. and the true big man thats slower is sitting on 7. IF that big dude keeps bodying the other guy and the other guy keeps jumping his highest to beat me for boards. then eventually he tires out ..A LOT. and starts to lose vertical and starts to lose strength, and starts to lose speed. and the really big guy starts snagging those boards the short big is just too tired to get to.

^^thats a chess match. now you have learned your lesson to use all your energy up at once. now you have to pick and choose how and when you go after some boards, while conceding others. This is realistic to the game of basketball. no one goes 100 all game long, every quarter on every possession.

Now lets address the VC micro transactions. what i'm saying when i say I want everyone to play with their guy and that guy plays like they play. no rating/badge sticks forever. unless its physical stuff(we can make you work out for that too if you want to go there.)

this will increase the amount of variation we have in arcs. right now we are seeing the same couple of arcs per position. its because the way you're forced to build them and you realize only certain arcs work on 2k20 while others are nerfed. so no reason in using those. but if they use my method no need to nerf anything its purely based on your style of play. yes you should lose your ability to shoot and you should attain and gain that ability by shooting and releasing it well in practice and in games.

guards obviously would start off higher in shooting ratings but not super high. you have to earn that. and yes you can lose it.

No amt of VC can change that. thats how you keep the microtrans out of it. dont allow them to be used to boost your guy in that regard. You can use them to say purchase a trainer, but there are no guarantees with said trainer. the easier it is to practice to say hit shots the cheaper the trainer will be and the slower you'll rank up in shooting.

this means they are going to really have to pay you some good VC for becoming a #1 pick and balling out and winning some rings and being that big Free agent. so you can choose to do all of these things. but hey, you dont need those things if you're that good at the game. you can practice on your own and still gain it will just be a bit more difficult since you wont have the equipment or the help. just like real life. it cant be a thing where if you start missing your rating drops 10 slots. thats crazy. but it has to gradually go up and down.

[BasketBalla21]

Quote: Originally Posted by splashmountain

rebounding is based on all of the things i mentioned why did you single 2 of them out? and reggie evans does have long arms, he also as a super strong core/base and he also has the proper box out fundamentals. all of which i mentioned.

I singled the two out because that's all I disagreed with. 2k values those 2 attributes over the others when it comes to rebounding when they are the smallest factor to success.

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and it would wear me out going up against those big boys. and this is key, it goes to your point about how you dont like how 2k guys jump to high ALL the time. you're right. that needs to be fixed as well. but how you fix that is this: Do not nurf the ability or i should say dont nurf the animation. allow anyone who chooses to, to press RT and the jump button so they can jump as high as they want until...they run out of energy(stamina). this is key. this is why they never should've touched the stamina from the day one release. but that was only to keep the proper speeds and cut down on some of that over dribbling. i dont think 2k realizes how tiring it is to constantly go up for dunks or rebounds and have to really go up high ALL GAME LONG. thats taxing. it should show on my stamina bar. if i want to go that route..fine. but i better be super fatigued by the time the end the 3rd hits.

I agree with stamina playing a bigger role. They would probably switch it back for online play because of complaints but I view stamina limitations as a good thing. The hustle rating would actually have value that way. They might even make it a badge so players will be forced to specialize their builds.

I think it would be easier on the devs to just limit the situations where you can jump super high for rebounds. Treat it like a flashy dunk and make it trigger in space for oohs and aahs. It would also help if the high vertical rebounding animations were actually limited by the player's vertical rating. It seems like it's triggered by the rebounding rating mostly.

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Now lets address the VC micro transactions. what i'm saying when i say I want everyone to play with their guy and that guy plays like they play. no rating/badge sticks forever. unless its physical stuff(we can make you work out for that too if you want to go there.) this will increase the amount of variation we have in arcs. right now we are seeing the same couple of arcs per position. its because the way you're forced to build them and you realize only certain arcs work on 2k20 while others are nerfed. so no reason in using those. but if they use my method no need to nerf anything its purely based on your style of play. yes you should lose your ability to shoot and you should attain and gain that ability by shooting and releasing it well in practice and in games.

I disagree. These guys don't decide builds by what works. All of the builds work. They just want the easiest experience possible.

Post scorers are the most dominate 1v1 build in the game but hardly anyone uses it on their pro-am team just because they don't want to deal with double-teams(which is the whole point of a post scorer ).

They would all still play the same and make the same players. I was dominating with my Lamar Odom build last year and I only got him to 80. I spent most of my time playing at 76ovr. A normal player wouldn't be caught dead playing a 6'10 SF with 65 3 and 65 ballhandling, but just like in real life I could distribute, defend, post-up, and even spread the floor a little.

These guys don't want to play diverse basketball, they want a linear experience where they need to think as little as possible. I'm not knocking them for it, most people don't appreciate the multitude of different strategies in sports.

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guards obviously would start off higher in shooting ratings but not super high. you have to earn that. and yes you can lose it. No amt of VC can change that. thats how you keep the microtrans out of it. dont allow them to be used to boost your guy in that regard. You can use them to say purchase a trainer, but there are no guarantees with said trainer. the easier it is to practice to say hit shots the cheaper the trainer will be and the slower you'll rank up in shooting.

There is no way Take-Two would allow the devs to take macro-transactions out of the game. Even if I did like that type of progression, it actually coming to pass is impossible.

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this means they are going to really have to pay you some good VC for becoming a #1 pick and balling out and winning some rings and being that big Free agent. so you can choose to do all of these things. but hey, you dont need those things if you're that good at the game. you can practice on your own and still gain it will just be a bit more difficult since you wont have the equipment or the help. just like real life. it cant be a thing where if you start missing your rating drops 10 slots. thats crazy. but it has to gradually go up and down.

That system works for hotzones but the the actual ratings should be left alone. Cold streaks do that anyway offline. The only way they can do that offline is with hotzones.