2K21 needs to be completely positionless.

[TeamBuilder]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

Dude...that's a programming problem or limitation. This is not a valid reason for "positionless" basketball. You're literally asking the developers to create a program that makes human decisions and have "opinions" about players.

No. You're wrong. It has nothing to do with "opinions." Read the post again, because you clearly didn't the first time. I literally wrote this exact sentence:

"A positionless system that prioritizes player attributes and complimentary skills would be much better, and would allow A.I./CPU teams to determine lineups based on team play style and player attributes that are valuable to mix into a lineup."

You can't create a made-up claim that I want a program for "opinions" when I explicitly stated attributes and complimentary skills. Check mate.

[howardphillips214]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

Raise your hand if you would put Steph Curry at the position that was previously known as "center". Anyone? Any takers?

Sure.. If i wanted to never ever grab a rebound and get him injured in 30 seconds, why not?

Obviously that's a bit extreme, bro. But what I'm mostly talking about is the fact that we're constantly putting PGs at the 1 in Rec when their sole focus is to score. If i see someone with a Pass-First Guard but they're at the 2, why not let them get the 1? 2k is already doing most of their PUG match making with SF at the 4 so why the hell not? It's just frustrating when the SF can't shoot, I'm not a great shooter, and they slap another non-shooting C in there just because I'm a PF. Only reason i made a PF instead of a C is because they kill your ratings at the same height just because you're the 5. Whenever I'm the 5 in Rec i actually do way better. If im playing the 4 with a 5 that can shoot, that's fine. But i had a C the other day get on the Mic being like "BRO YOU SEE ME DOWN HERE EVERY PLAY, WHY NOT FEED ME?"

I was like... "Bro everyone else trying to eat too. But NOBODY should be able to score in the paint because YOU'RE always in the paint? Plus, if you DO step out your man never leaves the print?"

I just think it's time to say, ok we got a big and another forward DONE.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by TeamBuilder

No. You're wrong. It has nothing to do with "opinions." Read the post again, because you clearly didn't the first time. I literally wrote this exact sentence: "A positionless system that prioritizes player attributes and complimentary skills would be much better, and would allow A.I./CPU teams to determine lineups based on team play style and player attributes that are valuable to mix into a lineup." You can't create a made-up claim that I want a program for "opinions" when I explicitly stated attributes and complimentary skills. Check mate.

And you clearly don't understand computer and AI. You STILL have to assign some type of numerical value that the software understands. Computers don't run on common sense. Computers run on specific codes of programming to determine outcome with a sprinkle of RNG.

You take out positions then you create a situation where the AI determines that team A needs more three-point shooting based on percentages, and "logically" trades for Steph Curry. Without positions, Steph Curry could end up being your starting PF/C.

Real talk. Positionless basketball don't exist in the same manner that positionless jobs don't exist. There are "defined" roles and those defined roles are carried out by a defined title. If you initiate the offense and control the pace, you a damn point guard. You're not some random player on the court.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by howardphillips214

Sure.. If i wanted to never ever grab a rebound and get him injured in 30 seconds, why not? Obviously that's a bit extreme, bro. But what I'm mostly talking about is the fact that we're constantly putting PGs at the 1 in Rec when their sole focus is to score. If i see someone with a Pass-First Guard but they're at the 2, why not let them get the 1? 2k is already doing most of their PUG match making with SF at the 4 so why the hell not? It's just frustrating when the SF can't shoot, I'm not a great shooter, and they slap another non-shooting C in there just because I'm a PF. Only reason i made a PF instead of a C is because they kill your ratings at the same height just because you're the 5. Whenever I'm the 5 in Rec i actually do way better. If im playing the 4 with a 5 that can shoot, that's fine. But i had a C the other day get on the Mic being like "BRO YOU SEE ME DOWN HERE EVERY PLAY, WHY NOT FEED ME?" I was like... "Bro everyone else trying to eat too. But NOBODY should be able to score in the paint because YOU'RE always in the paint? Plus, if you DO step out your man never leaves the print?" I just think it's time to say, ok we got a big and another forward DONE.

That's kinda a matchmaking problem. I only say kinda, because does it really "hurt" the team to have the pass-first player at the 2? If the team recognizes that he's the better PG (which is a position), then where matchmaking originally slotted them at is irrelevant. If you end up getting a SF that can't shoot, then it's on the team to figure out what the SF player can do to help the team. I'm confused with your reasoning behind not giving the big the ball. If he's capable of putting in work in the paint, then why would you NOT want to give him the ball? Pass him the ball and get out of his way. If the double comes, then the perimeter players should be ready to receive a pass from the post (presuming he passes). You're putting too much value on "shooting" versus what the team can do to win.

[TeamBuilder]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

You STILL have to assign some type of numerical value that the software understands.

Sigh. That's what attributes are... they are literal numerical values. I shouldn't have to explain that to you.

[howardphillips214]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

That's kinda a matchmaking problem. I only say kinda, because does it really "hurt" the team to have the pass-first player at the 2? If the team recognizes that he's the better PG (which is a position), then where matchmaking originally slotted them at is irrelevant. If you end up getting a SF that can't shoot, then it's on the team to figure out what the SF player can do to help the team. I'm confused with your reasoning behind not giving the big the ball. If he's capable of putting in work in the paint, then why would you NOT want to give him the ball? Pass him the ball and get out of his way. If the double comes, then the perimeter players should be ready to receive a pass from the post (presuming he passes). You're putting too much value on "shooting" versus what the team can do to win.

Point is... When a big camps in the paint all game he's hurting the team more than he's helping. This goes for ANYONE that's constantly clogging the paint, but moreso the big because their man is consistently down there to defend the rim. If im the 5 I'm constantly setting screens or spacing from midrange to keep my defender from camping. This is why teams in the NBA put such a premium on bigs who can space the floor. I'm not saying every big should be able to shoot, but coming out and setting screens for a shooter makes the big commit to helping on the shooter, then you and everyone else canyse driving lanes to score in the paint. Even if the bigs were camped on either of the low blocks this would help make the big man commit to a side. If im a post scorer, and im posted on the right block for instance. My man has to pressure me from the right side of the paint. Then if they kick it down, i cam kick to players cutting back door on the left baseline. But instead, they post up directly under the rim hoping someone passes or a shot comes off.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by TeamBuilder

Sigh. That's what attributes are... they are literal numerical values. I shouldn't have to explain that to you.

Yes, you should explain it in great detail if you're suggesting to tear down all code with no alternative. Especially since you're stanning for the Rockets who use players that break from those standard values.

Tell us about how you would implement this without breaking substitution patterns.

The Rockets don't play "positionless". They still follow a rotation w/ set player roles. All D'Antoni does is reclassify players and slide them up a primary position.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by TeamBuilder

Sigh. That's what attributes are... they are literal numerical values. I shouldn't have to explain that to you.

What I come from "I shouldn't have to explain that to you" translate to "I really don't know what I'm talkin about, but I'm going to pretend like I know what I'm talkin about."