Home

Why only "Help and no rotation"?

This is a discussion on Why only "Help and no rotation"? within the NBA 2K Basketball forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Basketball > NBA 2K Basketball
ESBC Roster - The Best We've Ever Seen in a Boxing Game?
PES 2021 Team Spirit Guide - Understand Chemistry on a New Level
MLB The Show 21 Diamond Dynasty Budget Beasts
Poll: What's more important to you, when the time comes to purchase a game? (Click to vote)
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2021, 04:27 AM   #1
Pro
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Why only "Help and no rotation"?

I mean,

Shouldn't we have an option for "Help and rotation"? Wouldn't this be the more realistic one considering current NBA defense schemas?

With help and no rotation you can get some guy(s) leaving his man to close in the paint, but usually that concedes an uncontested shot where you are totally sold... becasue I don't see any kind of rotation off ball and on the weak side...

It's curious cos when you call for a double team, in some cases, the game creates some kind of beautiful and realistic off ball repositioning and rotations (not in all cases though), but with Help we are totally in the dust...

What do you think? I think 2k devs should work a lot on defense strategy for next-gen games as they have a long way to go there with AI and options beeing so basic...

Cheers!
__________________
Ignorance is Bliss...

Last edited by Guard-ian; 05-13-2021 at 04:29 AM.
Guard-ian is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 05-13-2021, 08:30 PM   #2
MVP
 
Crossover1's Arena
 
OVR: 17
Join Date: Feb 2009
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

I believe that's what the auto/default setting is but the name suggests it is based off the team's schemes. It seems as though help defense, and defense in general are extremely difficult to program. Soon as a third defender is involved, it almost always breaks down even with elite defensive teams.

So the way 2K tries to get around this is by making on-ball defense unrealistic and paint scoring a lot weaker than irl. Contested shots go in at a much lower rate than irl too, at least to my eye test. When a defender is nearby, it seems to plummet the offensive player's percentage, especially when it's a defender with a plethora of badges.
__________________
'Only The Strong Survive'

Last edited by Crossover1; 05-13-2021 at 08:33 PM.
Crossover1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 11:49 PM   #3
Rookie
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: May 2016
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

I think it's simply a matter of programming. 2k developers haven't figured out how to do help the helper defense. They can get the one rotation in, but then the coding for second and third order defensive rotations is just too hard for them. Hopefully someday they'll figure it out.
tb0622 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2021, 06:58 AM   #4
MVP
 
jk31's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Sep 2014
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

i tested the help settings together with a friend with players that i gave all 99 on every important defensive rating and with artificially created Situations:

no help = no help, regardless of Off Ball defense setting

help and no rotation = only the first help

Auto = you mostly get the first help and sometimes even get help AND rotation. i am Not Sure if Auto = help and rotation or Auto truly = Auto, meaning we get randomly selected between no help, help and no rotation and help and rotation.

Note that There will be no help if a Player is Set to deny in the offball setting. but regardless if leave him, gap, moderate or tight, the help will come.


so please forget this "help and no rotation" bull**** that for what ever reason holds itself as the "best" Option as stated by different people for years. i tested this thoroughly myself and in my opinion Auto, while Not perfect, is the best setting.
and dont forget that especially in 2k21, defensive AI is as Bad as it has ever been. with players below 90 ratings on defense, you will See many many mistakes, which is ridiculous. Was much better in recent years.

Last edited by jk31; 05-15-2021 at 07:01 AM.
jk31 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2021, 03:00 PM   #5
Pro
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

So Auto is better than help and no rotation and could work from time to time as a kind of help and rotation... hum, that's interesting, I will give it a try... ;-)

Definitely defense is so inconsistent in this game and frustrating many times... It's something where the devs should put some focus with the extra power of the next gen even though they probably won't do it as that won't help them to sell more copies...
__________________
Ignorance is Bliss...
Guard-ian is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 05-19-2021, 03:44 AM   #6
MVP
 
jk31's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Sep 2014
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guard-ian
So Auto is better than help and no rotation and could work from time to time as a kind of help and rotation... hum, that's interesting, I will give it a try... ;-)

Definitely defense is so inconsistent in this game and frustrating many times... It's something where the devs should put some focus with the extra power of the next gen even though they probably won't do it as that won't help them to sell more copies...
as far as i understood what da_czar said (He Took over defense this year) He wants to reduce what is possible in defense and start over with the basics until He gets them right.
jk31 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2021, 11:57 PM   #7
Pro
 
dwayne12345's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Dec 2010
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jk31
and dont forget that especially in 2k21, defensive AI is as Bad as it has ever been. with players below 90 ratings on defense, you will See many many mistakes, which is ridiculous. Was much better in recent years.

Thanks for testing this. I've also noticed that auto leaves it in the hands of who you have on your team. I've seen the CPU pull off some scramble recovery defense against me, which was amazing to see.

I disagree on this last part. There should be mistakes on defense from most players. That's how great offensive players destroy teams that don't have 5 strong defenders. It's not sim if Kuzma isn't always in the wrong place at the wrong time on defense.

My gripe has long been there isn't enough AI mistakes on the offensive side of the ball. The CPU just doesn't throw the ball away enough on the default sliders (you can lower passing but this makes simple passes out of control too).
dwayne12345 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2021, 07:14 AM   #8
MVP
 
jk31's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Sep 2014
Re: Why only "Help and no rotation"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwayne12345
Thanks for testing this. I've also noticed that auto leaves it in the hands of who you have on your team. I've seen the CPU pull off some scramble recovery defense against me, which was amazing to see.

I disagree on this last part. There should be mistakes on defense from most players. That's how great offensive players destroy teams that don't have 5 strong defenders. It's not sim if Kuzma isn't always in the wrong place at the wrong time on defense.

My gripe has long been there isn't enough AI mistakes on the offensive side of the ball. The CPU just doesn't throw the ball away enough on the default sliders (you can lower passing but this makes simple passes out of control too).
yes There should of course be mistakes. but i am sorry, i am playing in the third lowest Division in germany and we Play better help defense than 2k.

how many players with 90+ on All defensive ratings exist in the game? Not that many. In our online League i run a starting lineup of paul-oladipo-ariza-siakam-turner. one would think this is one of the best defensive lineups you can get, right? no, they are too Bad to Play help defense consistently. that people with, dunno....

and especially as without even the first help rotation it completely ****s up how the game is played. you nearly cannot get open 3pt shots as you can walk into the paint Most of the Times. In real life, many offendes are build around penetrate and kick, which result in open 3s or open driving Lands sooner or later. you dont have that dynamic in 2k right now.

Last edited by jk31; 05-21-2021 at 07:17 AM.
jk31 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Basketball > NBA 2K Basketball »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:21 PM.

Top -