Classic Teams And 3pt %

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  • bls
    MVP
    • Oct 2003
    • 1788

    #1

    Classic Teams And 3pt %

    The 3pt shot was introduced in 1979. The 70-71 Milwaukee Bucks Oscar Robertson has a rating of 80. Jon Mcglockin has a rating of 87. People that use them green threes with them and Dandridge all game long.

    The post up game with Kareem is ultra easy. Why this team is even in the mix with regular NBA teams is beyond me (Tier 3 at that). No need to substitute because fatigue doesn't matter.

    My W/L will take a tumble because I will no longer participate in playing against these classic teams. Too unrealistic for me.
  • Real2KInsider
    MVP
    • Dec 2003
    • 4660

    #2
    Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

    Without 3pt shots, they are effectively unplayable. Creative liberties were taken.

    The NBA (and consequently NBA 2K AI) revolves around the 3pt shot.

    I personally separate legends from pre/post 3pt shot. The rules/strategy are so different they might as well be two different sports.
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    • bls
      MVP
      • Oct 2003
      • 1788

      #3
      Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

      They shouldn't be integrated with the current NBA teams. It's unfair IMO
      Originally posted by Real2KInsider
      Without 3pt shots, they are effectively unplayable. Creative liberties were taken.

      The NBA (and consequently NBA 2K AI) revolves around the 3pt shot.

      I personally separate legends from pre/post 3pt shot. The rules/strategy are so different they might as well be two different sports.
      Sent from my SM-F926U using Operation Sports mobile app

      Comment

      • AIRJ23
        MVP
        • Apr 2021
        • 2804

        #4
        Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

        Just cause they didn’t shoot threes doesn’t mean they can’t. Some of the highest three point and free throw percentages came from classic players. It makes sense to implement their three point ratings in a way that applies it to the way the current game is played with threes, for the sake of competition. If sharpshooters like Jeff Hornacek who was meh at his time due to the fact that his strength (three point shooting) was relatively frowned upon, played today, you best believe he’d be lighting it up from downtown.

        Comment

        • Real2KInsider
          MVP
          • Dec 2003
          • 4660

          #5
          Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

          3pt% in low volume does not make for a great shooter. Players take many more difficult shots now which greatly reduce their overall percentage. Could players like Bird or Hornacek hit more wide-open catch & shoot threes? Sure. Asking them to do what Steph Curry, James Harden, Kevin Durant etc do is a completely different story.


          On a generally related note, I also find it funny that ppl will make the argument that older players could play offense in today's NBA but that nobody from today's game could defend or deal with the physicality of those eras.
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          • AIRJ23
            MVP
            • Apr 2021
            • 2804

            #6
            Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

            Originally posted by Real2KInsider
            3pt% in low volume does not make for a great shooter. Players take many more difficult shots now which greatly reduce their overall percentage. Could players like Bird or Hornacek hit more wide-open catch & shoot threes? Sure. Asking them to do what Steph Curry, James Harden, Kevin Durant etc do is a completely different story.


            On a generally related note, I also find it funny that ppl will make the argument that older players could play offense in today's NBA but that nobody from today's game could defend or deal with the physicality of those eras.
            Of course they could. You mentioned a few of the best today at making those shots but watching games proves most bad/contested threes are missed today anyway. They made plenty of contested threes, and if they played in an era where they wouldn’t get subbed out for shooting terrible shots from behind the arc (something that stems from a Kobe influence), certainly they’d shoot and develop more.

            Look at how poorly Harden is doing with new slightly more physical rules. Those step backs and 3-4 step layups todays players shoot which allow them to make some of those contested shots would be called travels back then. Completely taking them out of the repertoire while not providing players back then the ability to abuse it.

            As for whether they could play in more physical eras, I’m sure some could and some couldn’t. Anyone who plays basketball knows some dudes on the court who thrive when the game is played with less contact have a tough time when you’re allowed to body up and put hands on them at the perimeter. NBA players today haven’t had to drive into paints clogged with 7 footers because the three second rule and the three point era keeps the paint further open.

            We all know it’s a different game. I tend to think anyone who stands above the pack in each era would be able to adapt and thrive in any other era just as well. Because that’s what good players do. Adapt to different rules.

            And Larry Bird? Lol he’d murder if he was allowed to shoot 15 threes a game and draw contact from catching arms or kicking legs out. He was dropping bombs with 4 hands in his face at the end of his career with a broken back and body, barely able to move, just imagine if he was told to shoot them more.



            On another note. McHale dropping range threes in that game. Dee Brown hitting contested 360 layups. Ball movement on point. That Celtics team albeit old, way past their prime and done for at the time were clean with the next level IQ.

            Miller’s shot is so pure too. That dude in todays game would be so at home. Imo he’d rival Curry if he was allowed to play like Curry plays. But Curry is the three point god, no doubt about that.
            Last edited by AIRJ23; 11-26-2021, 10:07 AM.

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            • Real2KInsider
              MVP
              • Dec 2003
              • 4660

              #7
              Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

              Originally posted by AIRJ23
              Of course they could. You mentioned a few of the best today at making those shots but watching games proves most bad/contested threes are missed today anyway.
              Not actually the case.

              2022:


              2021:


              They made plenty of contested threes, and if they played in an era where they wouldn’t get subbed out for shooting terrible shots from behind the arc, certainly they’d shoot and develop more.
              They played in an era where players took contested 20 footers. All today's players are doing is taking smarter shots.

              Look at how poorly Harden is doing with new slightly more physical rules.
              Harden w/ the new rules:
              Getting to the line at a higher rate than last season.
              Same 3pt rate, percentage slightly up.

              There are some players who are struggling w/ the rules, but Harden isn't one of them beyond his first 5 games or so.

              The irony is the 80s were the most whistle happy era of NBA history. The refs let a lot more contact go now. It's a completely different game and that goes both ways.

              As for whether they could play in more physical eras, I’m sure some could and some couldn’t. Anyone who plays basketball knows some dudes on the court who thrive when the game is played with less contact have a tough time when you’re allowed to body up and put hands on them at the perimeter. NBA players today haven’t had to drive into paints clogged with 7 footers because the three second rule and the three point era keeps the paint further open.
              The "Physical" 1980s.

              <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_hZauN4m9d0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
              Last edited by Real2KInsider; 11-26-2021, 10:29 AM.
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              • AIRJ23
                MVP
                • Apr 2021
                • 2804

                #8
                Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                But my custom roster is a mix of past and present stars and I had to lower the CPU three point slider because three pointers are way O/P in general. For example, Drazen Petrovic playing under the current Nets system Absolutely annihilates me from three. But so does annoy anyone who’s a good shooter in real life or the game.

                Comment

                • The 24th Letter
                  ERA
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 39373

                  #9
                  Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                  I'll never understand why people think "bad" or low percentage shots haven't existed in every era of basketball.

                  The early shot clock threes of this era were the early 25 footers of the era before.

                  As far as the thread, the tier system in PNO is jacked. The classic Bucks have no business being in Tier 3....but I disagree the teams shouldn't be integrated.


                  Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
                  Last edited by The 24th Letter; 11-26-2021, 10:56 AM.

                  Comment

                  • AIRJ23
                    MVP
                    • Apr 2021
                    • 2804

                    #10
                    Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                    Originally posted by Real2KInsider
                    Not actually the case.

                    2022:


                    2021:




                    They played in an era where players took contested 20 footers. All today's players are doing is taking smarter shots.



                    Harden w/ the new rules:
                    Getting to the line at a higher rate than last season.
                    Same 3pt rate, percentage slightly up.

                    There are some players who are struggling w/ the rules, but Harden isn't one of them beyond his first 5 games or so.

                    The irony is the 80s were the most whistle happy era of NBA history. The refs let a lot more contact go now. It's a completely different game and that goes both ways.



                    The "Physical" 1980s.
                    Lmao you’re kidding with “smarter shots.” I watch games across eras as a hobby and shots taken now oft look more like pickup game lobs. Those stats are irrelevant if we’re talking era vs era unless we have the same percentages shown for previous eras. Watching games today often looks like a three point brick fest for the most part. NBA average is what, 34% at best from three? Following analytics may be “smarter” on paper but it makes the game one dimensional and sure ain’t more fun to watch. NBA’s horrendous finals ratings (vastly down from MJ’s record finals viewership) further convey that, the decline being even more vast when taking into account natural inflation. Popovich himself admits threes are a must due to analytical competitiveness but have removed a whole element of dimensional skill and beauty from the game.

                    And that video you showed supposed to mean anything other than highlighting how even some cherry picked 80’s footage still looks way more physical than todays game? Not to mention how epic Dominique vs Jordan was? How good Nique is? The comments in the video all saying how that game was peak excitement lol. At least MJ got a break from being tackled by the Pistons.

                    Todays “physical” king and game:


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                    Last edited by AIRJ23; 11-26-2021, 10:59 AM.

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                    • bls
                      MVP
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 1788

                      #11
                      Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                      I never said that. I said they should not be included with regular NBA teams. There is no data to suggest what there 3pt% would be because it didn't exist.

                      So the best thing to do is keep them out of the mix of current NBA teams. It's only fair IMO.
                      Originally posted by AIRJ23
                      Just cause they didn’t shoot threes doesn’t mean they can’t. Some of the highest three point and free throw percentages came from classic players. It makes sense to implement their three point ratings in a way that applies it to the way the current game is played with threes, for the sake of competition. If sharpshooters like Jeff Hornacek who was meh at his time due to the fact that his strength (three point shooting) was relatively frowned upon, played today, you best believe he’d be lighting it up from downtown.
                      Sent from my SM-F926U using Operation Sports mobile app

                      Comment

                      • bls
                        MVP
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 1788

                        #12
                        Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                        How would you access 24th? 99% of those classic teams have multiple players with 50 badges lol If anything they all should be in tier 1 IMO.

                        I just don't understand how you can access a rating to a player for something that never exist in that era [emoji2365]

                        So now I gotta deal with 3 marksman from the 3pt line and Kareem......OK [emoji23]
                        Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                        I'll never understand why people think "bad" or low percentage shots haven't existed in every era of basketball.

                        The early shot clock threes of this era were the early 25 footers of the era before.

                        As far as the thread, the tier system in PNO is jacked. The classic Bucks have no business being in Tier 3....but I disagree the teams shouldn't be integrated.


                        Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
                        Sent from my SM-F926U using Operation Sports mobile app

                        Comment

                        • AIRJ23
                          MVP
                          • Apr 2021
                          • 2804

                          #13
                          Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                          And of course no one is suggesting “bad” low percentage shots weren’t taken before. Indeed they were just mostly closer range.

                          But it’s naive to think sharpshooters of the past couldn’t adapt to todays era of what would be previously considered wild/bad three pointers. Especially now that step backs and 3-5 step “gathers” are allowed. Guys before did what they did with a fraction of that being called as travels. Nevermind how much you can palm the ball underside when dribbling now, etc.

                          It’s also naive to think today’s elite players couldn’t adapt to More physical defensive rules and era. Some couldn’t, just like some couldn’t the other way around, but the good ones always find a way.

                          Era vs era is preferential. It’s about taste. I enjoy watching back to back games across eras. And I’m finally starting to enjoy nba games more so again with new rule changes. The league was insufferable the last several years imo. And indeed it goes both ways. Certain things stand out and are objectively more difficult in each era. Driving to the paint with 7 footers parked indefinitely inside while a guy has a hand on you at the perimeter is objectively more difficult than getting past someone who can’t touch you and reaching the paint while the defending center is standing yards away at the three point line. Just like shooting contested threes is more difficult than spotting up for an open catch.
                          Last edited by AIRJ23; 11-26-2021, 11:27 AM.

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                          • Real2KInsider
                            MVP
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 4660

                            #14
                            Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                            Originally posted by AIRJ23
                            Lmao you’re kidding with “smarter shots.” I watch games across eras as a hobby and shots taken now oft look more like pickup game lobs.
                            Buddy. 3PT pullups & spotups are smarter shots than the 18-20 footers that littered the NBA 20-30 years ago. It's why they were eliminated from playbooks.

                            There is a big difference between
                            A. Kevin Durant or Kawhi Leonard taking mid-range shots that the defense gives them.
                            B. Charles Oakley & A.C. Green taking mid-range shots as a staple of the offense.

                            35% on threes > 45% on twos
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                            • AIRJ23
                              MVP
                              • Apr 2021
                              • 2804

                              #15
                              Re: Classic Teams And 3pt %

                              Originally posted by Real2KInsider
                              Buddy. 3PT pullups & spotups are smarter shots than the 18-20 footers that littered the NBA 20-30 years ago. It's why they were eliminated from playbooks.

                              There is a big difference between
                              A. Kevin Durant or Kawhi Leonard taking mid-range shots that the defense gives them.
                              B. Charles Oakley & A.C. Green taking mid-range shots as a staple of the offense.

                              35% on threes > 45% on twos
                              No man. This is what I’m saying. So many threes during games are not “smart” threes. They’re jacked up low IQ contested bricks. Back in the day players would get subbed out and reamed by the coach for shooting those, it’s just the reality of the situation. In a modern game a lot of guys who back then couldn’t exploit their three point tendencies would find their style much more suited. We all know what analytics favor (which subjectively has sucked soul out of the game and relatively lousy ratings reflect that).

                              If you ask me, the game is lazier now than it was then.

                              And Oakley and AC were never staples of their offenses lmao.

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