8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

**HOLLIDAY1183** · 10-27-2008, 01:51 AM

(UPDATED Dec.15) 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues) Changes in RED

Defense<o></o>
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Steal Success: 25/25 (Down from 35. I wanted more deflections, and some people commented they saw too many steals in the original set)
Help Defense Strength: 100/100<o></o>
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On-ball steals happen too often on default, and it’s unrealistic as I’ve never seen people ripping people like that even in my high school or college career, and hardly ever in the pros. Especially not Bosh ripping CP3. Help defense at the max because you will call for it repeatedly when Kobe starts his drive. Like real life, guys like Kobe and Lebron simply CANNOT be defended one on one. We need to force some strategy here though, so even these guys will have to find a lane late which the D collapsing.<o></o>
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Attributes<o></o>
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Stealing: 30/30 (Down from 45. Wanted to reduce steals, but also get more tipped balls and the sense that on D you'd better just defend instead of camping the lanes)
Blocking: 70/70 (Down from 75. Was seeing a few too many blocks before)
Ball Handling: 44/44<o></o>
Dunking Ability: 42/42<o></o>
Offensive Awareness: 40/40<o></o>
Defensive Awareness: 100/100<o></o>
Offensive Rebounding: 60/40<o></o>
Defensive Rebounding: 70/60<o></o>
Clutch Factor: 20/20 (Clutch is a great concept, but the CPU just can't be trusted with it. 2K has it so that you suddenly just miss everything while the CPU makes everything)
Speed: 31/19 (With the Game Speed at 55, lowered this from 45/35 to reduce the TURBO effect. Plus, a 12pt gap is needed or the CPU will catch you unfairly on HOF)
Strength: 80/40 (This seems to even out the post issue following the patch. I still can't just back down anybody, or back down from the top of the key, but I can move Monta Ellis with Amare now. I actually kinda like what the patch did though--now you have to get it with good position and use a move to get a look. No more just backing in)
Stamina: 48/48 (Down from default. I like when people get tired, and their game is affected. Also, this punishes abusive stuff like camping the lanes, fast breaking all game with one player. Now he'll get tired and be useless)
Durability: 50/50<o></o>
Vertical: 50/50<o></o>
Quickness: 45/45<o></o>
Hustle: 60/60<o></o>
Hands: 35/20 (Down from 100, lol. I realized that it needs to be reduced to get more deflections and missed passes, which is great to see happen. But also, now you won't see the CPU throwing four oops per game in a half court setting)
On-Ball Defense: 100/100<o></o>
Injury Severity: 60/60
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Blocking is high to offset what I did to the Contest Shots Tendency. Don’t worry, you will not see many if any blocked jumpers from long range (tell me when you see jumpshooters getting blocked from 3 in real life, 2k wtf), but in the lane you need to watch out, maybe even alter your shot sometimes. Again, a Dwight Howard will likely send your !%#, but lesser shotblockers will still be scored on due to the Contest Shots rating which ties directly into blocking. Dunking ability toned just enough to allow Kobe to dunk when he has the proper step/angle, but Pavlovic will never dunk in traffic. Def Awareness needs to be maxed to stop the backdoor BS and heavily defended alleys. This ties into Off Awareness. Speed is a BIG ISSUE on HOF, but 31/19 is perfect so that on a fast break the CPU will create some separation and you won’t catch them unfairly, but if you’re ahead THEY WONT EITHER. So annoying, but this makes it even and eliminates it. I should note that even with this the speed of the player matters. For example I’ve been caught by Tony Parker on a break with Ben Wallace. It just eliminates the “HOF superspeed” of the CPU.<o></o>
Also, on rebounds you need to have a thirty-point spread between your DEF Rebounds and the CPU’s OFF Rebounds, JUST TO MAKE IT FAIR. Otherwise the computer will grab countless Offensive boards, another one of 2K’s “HOF Difficulty” cheats. On-Ball D is great maxed out because you can actually bother a superstar if you shade him to the help and get bodies in his way, but they still can get around you. Yet, a Gibson will NEVER blow by you into the lane, and if he does, good luck for him getting a good look with the Blocks/Contest Shots at this balance. Quickness lowered to give more margin for error w/on-ball D. With Play Passing Lanes maxed, the CPU(and you) will be forced to play ball as if you’re out there yourself--you will rarely pass thru people, or complete passes than defy the defenders common sense to knock it down or steal it. Forces strategy and realism. I’ve seen instances, with myself or the CPU, where the shot clock is down to 5 and there’s no angle to find someone and you just have to throw something up rather than turn it over by forcing a pass. Beautiful. Ballhandling tweak tied into quickness to slow down the spin and make it more defendable. Injury severity at 60 cuz if I injury someone I want to see some real injuries besides ones where they always return to the game. Still haven’t seen one yet. You can leave that default though. The ones I left at 50 I left them cuz I feel like I found a balance w/o adjusting them.<o></o>
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Tendencies<o></o>
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Take Close Shots: 50/0 (CPU down from 15. They still largely ignore this slider though)
Take Mid-Range Shots: 50/100<o></o>
Take 3PT Shots: 50/55 (I played with this a bit. Against the Celts, Rondo refused to take a 3 regardless how much space I gave him, but Nash pulled it immediately)
Attack The Basket: 50/20 (Lowered the CPU from 45, just so they'll run their sets more and shoot more J's)
Finish Strong Inside: 45/45<o></o>
Look for Post Players: 50/75 (Raised the CPU from 20. As some suggested, this helps get the CPU to swing it around more, and use fadeaways, and just get their post players more involved)
Use Triple Threat: 50/10 (I lowered the CPU from 65, just because they seemed to be holding it too long just pivoting. With it low they'll move the ball more, and their offense flows more)
Use Fadeaways: 50/65<o></o>
Use Hookshots: 0/0<o></o>
Attempt Putbacks: 50/50
Throw Flashy Passes: 0/0 (Lowered from 30 for HUM and CPU. I HATE when I see a man open under the rim, and my supposedly good ballhandler attempts a behind-the-back bounce pass which is stolen. Even at 0 they'll still try fancy ish once in a while)
Commit Fouls: 45/45 (Up from 40 just to increase fouls in general)
Play Passing Lanes: 100/100<o></o>
Go for On-Ball Steals: 5/5<o></o>
Contest Shots: 10/10 (Lowered from 25 for HUM and CPU. Basically I shot jumpers in practice with Lebron and Kobe, while lowering this one by one. Every time someone like J.J. Redick was able to block them, regardless of their timing or position, I lowered it. At 10, you will NOT SEE Kobe being blocked from 18. EVER. Like real life. But in the paint, where the majority of blocks occur, bigs and shotblockers will bother shots and block them when they should. Also, people will not be able to jump 8 feet to pressure a shooter. If you're caught doubling and don't get back fast enough, the shooter will have an open 3. Like real life. Helps with the spacing. Just a matter of annoying things I was determined to eliminate. Seeing Redick block Kobe and KG is just unacceptable.
Use Sizeup Moves: 50/100 (Increased the CPU from 55 just so they'll do more to create space for jumpers and involve stars who have the great moves more. It does allow for the ridiculous idle Globetrotter-esque stuff, but I'm willing to live with that for the greater good.
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The tendencies here are the most important, cuz they tie into certain ratings, and also they force the CPU to start playing like a fallible human being. Most HUM tendencies are obviously at default just because you have your own tendencies when you play. But some, like Finish Strong Inside and Contest Shots, aren’t a matter of personal play style, but what your player does when you press a button. With Mid-Range maxed, the CPU will take what you give them, but also will shoot off screens, shoot over you, or even pull up on you sometimes. Take 3PT Shots at 55 so the CPU will take it when they have it, but won’t just chuck 3’s, especially with the Mid-Range so high. I found that it seems to matter how much separation there is between tendencies, for example if I had Mid-Range at 75 the computer would sometimes prefer the 3 or keep going inside. With this though, they’ll look inside still, but with the Passing Lanes, Blocking, and Defensive Awareness so high, they’re reluctant to risk the backdoor cheat, and reluctant to just attack the rim with reckless abandon, so it seems they start trying to just get an honest bucket through the offense, or going to work on you with superstars. On-Ball steals are not pulled off too often, and with the Steal Success Slider so low, these will result in fouls not steals, so pretty much steals will happen most often the way they do in real life, off errant passes. Hooks at 0 becuz, when’s the last time you saw an NBA player do one? lol. Use Sizeup Moves raised so the CPU will try to create space and sometimes pull up on you. Fadeaways at 65 so they will actually use it once in a while. Contest Shots as I said ties into Blocks, but its lowered so that people aren’t blocking 3’s, which NEVER happens in real life. But in the lane, where it’s generally more congested with defenders, there’s more of a chance that someone will get a hand on it, even before the shot and knock it away. Blocks have to be at least 70 though, cuz for some reason I’ve seen balls going thru defenders hands that shoulda been blocks.<o></o>
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There ya’ll go, my contribution to this amazing community. I hope these sliders help you get things looking as good as what I’m seeing here. Still in my season with the Cavs, got seeded 1st with a 42-16 record (Lebron got the MVP 23-7-6 & 2 on the season), and am now in the Finals versus the Lakers after a grueling Conf. Finals against the Celts. Wish me luck I will need it against Kobe lol.
Keep in mind I only have experience with HOF level and my quarters are 8 or 9 minutes. You can probably play more or less and get realistic stats by slightly adjusting Game Speed though. These have wiped out the backdoor BS, the unfair Off Rebs, the high FG%, the constant CPU PIP, and the “Big Z catching Tony Parker on the break” issue, and makes the CPU generally play a more realistic game (even using the mid-range sometimes). Doesn’t make this extremely difficult game much easier, but at least now when Kobe lights you up for 40 you feel like he did it honestly.<o></o>
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Any comments please feel free! I think with the patch and these tweaks we are almost there!<o></o>

**jrose57** · 10-27-2008, 02:19 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

all i need to know about this slider is, does it solve the cpu's pip issue, if yes, this set is mine, becuase i tried everything here, there are lots of good things ppl did here, but none can solve the problem of pip, it should only be around 1/3 for both user n cpu, not 2/3!

**HOLLIDAY1183** · 10-27-2008, 02:29 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

The PIP issue has all but vanished for me. Try it and see.
But even if they're still going to the paint too much, there's room to adjust the close shots and look for post even lower.
I just was too afraid if I dropped it to 0 or 5 that they wouldn't ever look for someone like Duncan or Shaq. Actually I'm playing the Suns in practice right now and Nash is jackin 3's a bit. Soon as he has space he's tossing it up. But they're going to Shaq too, and Nash even pulled up for a few midrange J's just now. May have to bring the 3PT tendency down, maybe to like 45

**pbz06** · 10-27-2008, 02:31 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

thank you for your efforts, i will most definately check them out. I've been trying many sliders and each one seems to be a million times better than default, but at the same time they each seem to have one glaring issue that kills it for me, or some work only with certain rosters/profiles/tweaks etc. some are just for xbox, others are for PS3 but different rosters....it's just confusing putting the pieces together to make everything work in uniform.

I'll try these out on Pro and All-star too, since i get the feeling i will get murdered on HOF.

Anyway, I have roster edits and coach profiles (from nogster/razr on PS3)....do you think those will still work well? I really like his roster edits a lot more than the 2k versions

**pbz06** · 10-27-2008, 02:36 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

p.s.- any reason why you put the "real free throw" to "off"? isn't it better to vary depending on the player's rating? just curious

**mvpdirk** · 10-27-2008, 02:40 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

Holliday,
These sliders look great! You certainly seem to have put a lot of work into getting them just right. Like you I have read these forums and the ones on the 2K site and have tried a lot of remedies to the deficiencies of the game right out of the box. I am by no means a great player of this game, but I do love it and want the most realistic sim I can get. For this reason, I am wondering what you think these sliders will do on All-Star. Which elements do you think would need tweaking from your sliders to make more sense one level down?
Other than that, I will be trying these as soon as I get offline.

Cheers.

**HOLLIDAY1183** · 10-27-2008, 03:00 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

Hey you're welcome! Yeah that was the main issue for me too, there was always something that still was glaring, so I set out to try and figure out a good set for me personally. I'm on 360 and never tried any roster or coaching edits, but maybe someone can try them with these and see. I've noticed some ridiculous ratings (my boy killed me with the Brent Barry of the Rockets, turns out 2K thought he should have a 98 3PT rating, WTF)

And yeah, you can def try them on All-Star or Pro, I think the main stupid thing with HOF that may not be an issue on lower difficulties are the cheats like the CPU being simply WAY faster than you, makes shots you can't make, and grabs every off. reb. I tried with these to counter those. And yeah, I still get murdered by every good team, lol

Oh, the FT thing is a good point, I may edit this and start playing with it on Real FT% for the reason you named, and plus the inexplicable frame drops that cause misses. Yeah, I'm gon change that and start playing like that, thanks

**pbz06** · 10-27-2008, 03:16 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

I just played an 8 minute quarter down to your exact settings, except I have Razr's rosters and coach profiles, and i think this might be it

granted, it was only a quarter, but i didn't see anything to complain about....the CPU ran the offense normally, and played very realistically. i was worried at first because after they won the tip-off baron davis quickly shot up a 3, and i said to myself "oh no here we go again", but it turned out he only shot 2 more 3's the rest of the quarter, one to beat the shot clock, and the other he was wide open....i know baron davis chucks up shots in real life, but with the CPU cheats going on i was ready to have bad flashbacks, lol

I'm going to sleep but tomorrow night I'll try on Pro and All-star to see how well it goes...this seems very promising!

**pbz06** · 10-27-2008, 03:23 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

Also, two more questions if you don't mind.

The first question: the game plays a little too fast for me. I want to slow it up a bit. Do I change the "gameplay speed"? or the "speed" setting in the attributes (as long as I keep the same distance between human/CPU)? Even though the CPU played realistically in their half-court, the game moves a little too fast for me (know what i'm saying?)

Second: this isn't a slider issue, but you might know. Does anybody else notice that the CPU does too many fancy dribbles and stuff? Is there a way to tone that down or eliminate? It's so annoying when I see an Udrich or something try to act like a harlem globetrotter...it seems like the CPU can't even dribble it up the court without constant behind the backs, between the legs, random crossovers etc. Or when they hold it at the top of the key, they just pull out their entire arsenal with shake n bakes and jukes and crazy dribbles.....just been a pet peave of mine and makes it unrealistic in most cases, especially when i'm not pressuring.

**HOLLIDAY1183** · 10-27-2008, 03:29 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

Guys I just decided to change the CPU Take 3PT Shots down to 45. They still take it if they have it for sure, but not so quick or early in the shot clock. Real FT% is on now too, shooting free-throws was literally a guessing game with it off.

LOL in my season the Knicks are on a 11-game slide and the headlines keep pointing it out with each loss

**pbz06** · 10-27-2008, 03:35 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

Originally posted by HOLLIDAY1183

Guys I just decided to change the CPU Take 3PT Shots down to 45. They still take it if they have it for sure, but not so quick or early in the shot clock. Real FT% is on now too, shooting free-throws was literally a guessing game with it off.

LOL in my season the Knicks are on a 11-game slide and the headlines keep pointing it out with each loss

I personally turn down the FT difficulty to about 35. I know it sounds cheap, but it's too ridiculously hard to get down unless you memorized or practiced a LOT with a certain team/player. Each player has their own animation so it was annoying having to miss the first couple times until you got it down.

**HOLLIDAY1183** · 10-27-2008, 04:06 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

Yeah, I see what you mean. Yeah, on HOF you can lower it but you need need that 10-pt gap in player speed attribute or they will catch you on fast breaks with slower players.
As I understand it the game speed affects the entire movement of everything onscreen, from clock speed to crowd movement to animations of players, and speed in the attributes slider means simply how fast every player moves while in turbo mode. For me personally it was a good balance to bring game speed to 48 while reducing turbo speed to 45, but game speed certainly wouldn't be hurt by dropping it to around 43-45, it's probably sweet once you're used to it. And man, I might just drop the speed attribute to around 42, cuz some of these guys are a blur in turbo mode. At default though, it's like they literally turn on the jets when you press the trigger lol

On the fancy dribbling, I did a lot of experimenting with that just last night, and it seems once you drop lower than 44, certain dribbling animations for elite players are unavailable. For example my "control group" was Lebron and Kobe, and I kept lowering it by one and then doing that sizeup thing by tapping the trigger. Once I got below 44 they both no longer did that VERY EFFECTIVE stepback-ish sizeup move. I too HATE how the CPU strings together ridiculous moves coming upcourt, but I didn't want to strip elite players of any moves. Perhaps I'll just lower it for the CPU and experiment with full-court press to see what they do. God knows they probably have a higher threshold before they start losing moves, like the speed gap. I'll try it tomm after work and post the results

**jrose57** · 10-27-2008, 10:38 PM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

lets upload this set on 2kshare!

i really hope this set will finally solve pip, this is the only thing i m struggling with now!

**pbz06** · 10-28-2008, 12:32 AM

Re: 8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

I just played 2 games, and the overall gameplay is almost perfect. There is no more CPU cheating and everythign seems to play fine. Looks like a really nice slider set.

The points in the paint problem is still there, but I can live with it since the game overall plays realisitcally and feels normal. The FG% was a little high for both teams (a lot of that is because of the PITP, which was 2/3 of their 90 points) both teams shot in the 55%-60% range, but other than that the stats looked perfect. No more chucking up 3's like crazy. Holliday, how was it looking on your end? It might be my defense lacking which causes the CPU to abuse me down low?

I'll play a couple more games with "attack basket" much lower and see how it works.

I ended up adjusting ball handling though to 5 for CPU. I just can't stand them being harlem globetrotter style dribbling. This seemed to tone it down A LOT, but this is personal preference.

I also like to tone down the player speed to 30 and 20 for human and CPU...I'm just used to it that way

8-10 Min Sim Sliders (Addressing Several CPU Issues)

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