The Purist(s) NBA 2K11 Sliders (Post-Patch)

[DoubleJ13]

You'll probably have to set rotations & situationals to keep end of bench guys getting in the game & even then fouls would probably force some time anyway from guys. Or you could set the subs to be done manually.

[Dean3790]

Another thing: if you are using Geebo's rosters, you need to put Dunking Ability back at 50. If it is at 37, which it is listed here, no one with mediocre dunk ratings that can and does dunk IRL (D. Rose, for example) will ever dunk.

This is because Geebo included Dunk Package edits which ALREADY LOWERED DUNK RATINGS FOR INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. So guys who can't dunk have their ratings lowered so they cannot dunk in any context. It's all here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...Hc&hl=en#gid=0

So, once again, if you are using Geebo's roster, keep the Dunking Ability slider at 50.

[greenieblue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dean3790

Greenie, your TO numbers are a little off. The 2010 turnovers per game average ranges from 12.5 (UTA) to 16.8 (MIN). Plus, the average of all of the team averages comes out to 14.02. So for the turnovers per game to be realistic, we should, after about 10 games, when all of the turnover numbers are added from all the teams (ensuring different teams are used, I won't get into the hardcore stats of it but 10 games with different teams each game should be close) it should be 14. The numbers are here http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/turnovers-per-game In most iterations of this set, the turnover numbers have been consistently higher than 14 per team per game. Sure, SOME games could have 20+, but the vast majority of games should be under significantly under 20 per team. If we have games where there are 25 turnovers for a team, we should also have games that have 4 or 5 turnovers for a team. I have never seen a team have under 10 TO's with these settings. I appreciate the work and everything, don't think I'm bashing this set because it is awesome. But if you think (and I agree) that turnovers are so crucial, we really should make sure we have the numbers right.

http://hoopdata.com/teamstats.aspx

The key is, you were going for on-ball steals. Something specifically advised against on the first page. I have never seen a CPU opponent above 20. Not once. My CPU opponents are usually in the 10-15 range on TO's. Frankly, this is too low. It will not produce 14 avg over 82 games. You need 20's to reach a 14 avg. Hell, you need 29's.

You act like I guessed my way to a set. The set was informed greatly by statistics, understanding of the game, watching the game for 15+ years, reading about the game for as long, etc.

You also act like I sold you a video game, that you would now like me to patch. Neither is true. No one needs to use the sliders. And as far as to's go, it's (again) two ****ing sliders. Not very difficult to eliminate them.

[greenieblue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dean3790

Another thing: if you are using Geebo's rosters, you need to put Dunking Ability back at 50. If it is at 37, which it is listed here, no one with mediocre dunk ratings that can and does dunk IRL (D. Rose, for example) will ever dunk. This is because Geebo included Dunk Package edits which ALREADY LOWERED DUNK RATINGS FOR INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. So guys who can't dunk have their ratings lowered so they cannot dunk in any context. It's all here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...Hc&hl=en#gid=0 So, once again, if you are using Geebo's roster, keep the Dunking Ability slider at 50.

D Rose doesn't dunk often, he throws up floaters.

"He doesn’t help out much on the boards and is a little too
good at avoiding contact when he drives the lane. This latter aspect is most germane to Rose improving his
efficiency. He gets into the lane, then hangs and twists to throw up miraculous-looking shots and avoid defenders.
That looks good on the highlight reel, but Rose would be better off just attacking the rim, something he’s
become more adept at doing."

Basketball Prospectus 2010-11.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10CHI3.HTM

2% of his shots are dunks.

[Dean3790]

Yes but he still should have the ability to dunk. With dunking ability at 37, a lot of the guys that are edited in Geebo's set (Boozer, Noah) won't dunk because their abilities have been lowered to 55 in the roster settings themselves and this is compounded with the slider.

Basically, the dunk edits were done with default sliders in mind. So combining that when not using default sliders, you are making guys who can dunk unable to dunk. If we left the default 2k roster ratings (D Rose, for example, has a 70 rating when in Geebo's he has a 55) we would need the dunking ability slider at 37. It has nothing to do with how often he dunks anyway, it is the fact that he can dunk.

Also, with the attempt dunks sliders at 11, the guys who dunk rarely do dunk rarely (at least I think they do).

As for turnovers, we have different information but it's only a difference of .7. That's not much. Everything I said still holds.

[greenieblue]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dean3790

Yes but he still should have the ability to dunk. With dunking ability at 37, a lot of the guys that are edited in Geebo's set (Boozer, Noah) won't dunk because their abilities have been lowered to 55 in the roster settings themselves and this is compounded with the slider. Basically, the dunk edits were done with default sliders in mind. So combining that when not using default sliders, you are making guys who can dunk unable to dunk. If we left the default 2k roster ratings (D Rose, for example, has a 70 rating when in Geebo's he has a 55) we would need the dunking ability slider at 37. It has nothing to do with how often he dunks anyway, it is the fact that he can dunk. Also, with the attempt dunks sliders at 11, the guys who dunk rarely do dunk rarely (at least I think they do). As for turnovers, we have different information but it's only a difference of .7. That's not much. Everything I said still holds.

It doesn't hold because I ran a 30 game test with the sliders above (that is hands 79, pass acc 44) the current settings and the CPU avg was 10.7. The max was 18. This is not realistic. But I placated because the human experience was not enjoyable. TO's, again, are too low. If you restrict yourself from going for on-ball steals (which happen rarely in the NBA) the CPU has zero chance of reaching 20.

Is the weakness of the philosophy behind the set that I refuse to have separate settings for hum/cpu? Possibly. But then why not just edit two sliders (or three including the dunk setting) and release Dean's slider set?

The ability to dunk is not the problem. The problem is that "Dunk Ability" influences the likelihood that players will dunk, and the variants thereof. Given that D. Rose (kudos to Geebo for seeing this) rarely dunks, his dunk ability should be low. 37 Universal Dunk Ability is meant to limit the types of dunks that players perform and also to limit the the players who will dunk-- 3-4 dunks per game in 07-08.

Look, I don't mind having a heated debate. But why do people keep saying, "Change your slider set for me"? The beauty of not being 2k, is that I can say, "Nope". That's also the beauty of my clearly not trying to parlay this into anything. I did it for the love of basketball (and statistics a little), and not to impress a community, a company or individuals.

There are other sets (A&S, Punt), other qualified people (you, obviously), try them & hate them & move on. Or tweak to your play style. Or use 99% of the set and make your own and post them. I'm sure people would appreciate that, since I've mostly moved on with my life.

[Dean3790]

Greenie I'm not trying to offend you at all and I think you are being a little defensive. I have no problem admitting I was wrong with the turnovers and I see your point. That's fine. You did a ****ing awesome job and I was just trying to be frank in pointing stuff out. I just want to help you reach the best conclusion possible. I'm not saying I could do any better at all, but it was something I thought I should mention.

As for the dunks though, didn't Geebo lower the Dunk tendency? Rose's dunk tendency is a 2. The attempt dunk slider is 11. But if I am playing as the Bulls and I get a fast break with Rose and want to dunk (which he does on occasion, I mean he has his own dunk package in the game) it is only realistic for the option to be there. The tendency of the actual player is a 2, so i can virtually guarantee the CPU will almost never pull off dunks as him. No?

[Atlanta]

why you bein so sensitive greenie? people are just providing feedback, you seem a little defensive whenever someone says something against one of your fans is providing feedback... if you upped the passing ability by a couple points it would make a huge margin helping with the unrealistic and negative effects of the turnovers. that's just my opinion, i've been getting realistic turnovers ever since raising it by 2, 3 points forget which.