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JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

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Old 08-16-2013, 04:21 PM   #441
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Honestly... idk what it is... but this is my first time using any sliders and playin in an association... it seems too easy.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:39 PM   #442
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Rich 317
Honestly... idk what it is... but this is my first time using any sliders and playin in an association... it seems too easy.
What rosters, what team you using?

I do have some updated numbers that I need to post as well.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:03 AM   #443
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

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Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
What rosters, what team you using?

I do have some updated numbers that I need to post as well.
Hey J,

Is it possible to transcend your sliders to All-Star difficulty?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:21 PM   #444
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Sup JW, can't remember where I read this but is it true when adjusting game sliders, you have to have it on custom first then change the numbers or do as you said and put it on Simulation first then input numbers...?


I read somewhere that the sliders dont work if you change them and it still says simulation instead of custom.

Whats your thoughts on this?
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:21 PM   #445
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

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Originally Posted by Solebru
Sup JW, can't remember where I read this but is it true when adjusting game sliders, you have to have it on custom first then change the numbers or do as you said and put it on Simulation first then input numbers...?


I read somewhere that the sliders dont work if you change them and it still says simulation instead of custom.

Whats your thoughts on this?

It doesn't matter where you start cause as soon as you change a slider it changes to custom anyway.

Somehow it got started with someone who thought starting at simulation was better. I dunno but logically it doesn't seem to hold, for me at least.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:03 AM   #446
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Hey Jwill, as you know I'm not big on slider adjustments. And before I get into my discussion here, I want everyone to know that I am perfectly fine with people adjusting sliders, playing on pro whatever it is you like to do. I play on all different levels (mostly rookie) and have my strong opinions on hall of fame mode but in no way do I ever feel that anyone sucks if they don't play hall of fame mode, don't think you have to play on hall of fame mode or any thing of that nature.

But if someone wants my opinion on hall of fame mode using sim sliders, I am always prepared to give it even though people won't like what I have to say - because that means I think you will have to get better something I think you are all capable of.

Because of that, I take a lot of heat for my position here at OS and slider adjusting was the PRIMARY reason I joined the forum. That being said, I am always open minded. I love the game as much as everyone and I'm willing to bet that Jwill and I have spent as much time with the game as anyone on the planet has (cheesers excepted)...lol.

Bottom line is I love the game, I can tell Jwill loves the game and many of you are experts in your own right as well so I know I'm not talking to people don't know what they are doing or who don't have strong opinions as well.

With that being said..

Previously, I had tried someone else's slider set to be used hand in hand with someone else's rosters. They were supposed to give me "realistic stats" but I found them incredible easy. Once the first quarter finished, I pretty much torched the CPU from outside because they weren't guarding me well enough. That experience gave me the theory that sliders are incredibly personalized based on whoever is using them's skill, the difficulty level and sliders you are used too.

Recently, some of the forum members and I had a long drawn out argument about these hall of fame "boosts" and how I think that while they are there, they can be rendered irrelevant if you play well enough. I know that a lot of time and effort was put into establishing that these boosts are and I don't deny that, that's just my experience.

During that conversation, a lot was said about "realistic stats" and it was again suggested that slider adjustments will give me that. It's my theory that eventually once I refine my play well enough, I will achieve realistic stats vs the HOF CPU on sim sliders, have realistic games and have fun while doing it. I've made some great strides in that process already holding the CPU under a 100 before holding their shot percentages down, keeping them off the glass, etc. It's not easy though and takes a lot of effort.

In that discussion, I think it must have come up about your sliders or it just reminded me of them or someone gave me the impression that sliders would give me realistic stats and so I thought I would take yours for a spin and give you my feedback and observations in case you wanted it to hear it.

So I hope you don't mind me posting in your thread about my experience.

What I did was take a game I had previously played vs the HOF CPU Spurs with sim sliders and have all the stats from and then played the Spurs again with your sliders in HOF mode vs the CPU so you can compare them.

In the interest of full disclosure here, I played that game many weeks back and had a different playbook in it. In this one, I used the default playbook and freelanced a bit more. Here I played one game for practice to get used to them (considering I have played for hours with the sim ones, I thought that would be OK) and lost by four.

Then I played an official game for the comparison.

I've played the Spurs ALOT. Maybe 20 times. That's like 20 plus hours of scouting them. Because of that, I know what they like to do. I've been ripped to shreds by Tony Parker, torched by Ginobili and killed on the glass.

Most of the games I play against the Spurs and hall of fame in general find me in a 10 point deficit most of the way that I either dig out of and make a game of it or the game gets out of hand.

In the first practice game, it worked lot like that. I got down 10 or so for most of the game and even got down by 18 in the fourth and cut the lead down to 2 possessions with two minutes to go. Lost that game by 4 and gave up 17 offensive rebounds.

In the second game, I got up by 21 at one point and probably relaxed a bit and took some ill advised threes to see if could knock them out. They finally got back in it cutting it to 7 in the fourth before I got the lead back up.

Compared to the other persons sliders, I will say these sliders were tougher than the previous ones I had used mainly because I was played tight all over the floor and the paint was well protected. Help was strong.

So here are the stats with some additional comments below them.

TEAM STATS HOF VS CPU SPURS USING SIMULATION SLIDERS









TEAM STATS HOF VS CPU SPURS WITH YOUR SLIDERS









What I found interesting was that I shot the same percentage from the field and had the same number of points in the paint on both slider sets.

The CPU shot a little better on the sim sliders and took more threes.

The main difference was I had to get Hibbert more involved in the game with your sliders and Granger was shut down and because of your settings. The other thing I noticed is that iif you miss a shot, you aren't penalized if it's a bad one because the CPU doesn't run like it does on sim sliders. Usually it's tough to get Hibbert going against the Spurs because they are tough in there. But my guess is that the settings which brought more help and the fact that fatigue was slightly less helped out with Hibbert. In any case it was an inside affair.

Overall observations:

1. I felt the CPU hit more contested threes using your sliders in my practice game. In my "official game" I was prepared for that. On defense, I didn't change any settings, I was all auto and coaches default. I changed no coaching settings. I just made sure I defended those guys who would hit threes and that helped. But I did think contested shots as a whole went in more than usual but that's a feeling not a fact or anything considering the shooting percentage was under 50 percent for the game.
2. The defense was in my face the whole game making perimeter play alot tighter and open shots harder to come by. Iso and getting to the rim is a challenge.
3. Help defense was pretty obvious but since it came easy that made it easier to get buckets in the paint even though the paint was pretty locked down. Personally I think help comes to strong with the goal I suspect to keep you out of the paint. It could be just the Spurs since they defend well anyway but it reminded me of how players jack with their help and guys come flying over.
4. Even though fouls were increased in the sliders, I didn't get as many trips to the line as I thought I might considering I went to the line a lot in sim slider game..
5. It's probably my coaching sliders by my help doesn't come like the CPU Spurs does with the change in your sliders.
6. I thought the pass accuracy increase helped me get in the paint easier since my guys aren't accurate sometimes anyway. But it didn't change the turnover problem I have with the Pacers.
7. The CPU certainly doesn't fast break like I'm used to and it's still difficult for me to run on either set of sliders. I noticed everyone was already back always.

The CPU still does that attack the basket until it gets space when it gets in trouble (almost like users do) but that is not as much of a problem with your sliders and I still had my fair share of HOF CPU cheese.

My conclusion at the end of my experiment is that realistic stats are more of a conscious decision to some degree (as opposed to slider adjustments) in play style and how well one can execute their game plan. So difficulty probably matters more than slider adjustments but that's just my take. Meaning that if a realistic box score is your goal, lower difficulty levels might make that easier to obtain until you good enough to do it at higher levels. Based on my best guess, pro on sim slider probably makes that the easiest vs the CPU.

Overall, I'm sure you've done comparisons and none of these results is news to you.

Good work on the sliders. While I won't be adopting them (because I'm on a different mission here with a different philosophy) I did want to try them out and I truly appreciate your passion for the game and the value you add to the forums.

EDIT: I wasn't entirely sure if the sliders were meant for CPU play and used the ones at the beginning of the thread.
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Last edited by www.Coach2K.com; 08-31-2013 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:42 AM   #447
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
It doesn't matter where you start cause as soon as you change a slider it changes to custom anyway.

Somehow it got started with someone who thought starting at simulation was better. I dunno but logically it doesn't seem to hold, for me at least.



I was just wandering because when I do change it it doesnt change it to custom. It says simulation but with my modifications.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:29 AM   #448
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Re: JW55 Hall of Fame OA Slider Set V1

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.Coach2K.com
Hey Jwill, as you know I'm not big on slider adjustments. And before I get into my discussion here, I want everyone to know that I am perfectly fine with people adjusting sliders, playing on pro whatever it is you like to do. I play on all different levels (mostly rookie) and have my strong opinions on hall of fame mode but in no way do I ever feel that anyone sucks if they don't play hall of fame mode, don't think you have to play on hall of fame mode or any thing of that nature.

But if someone wants my opinion on hall of fame mode using sim sliders, I am always prepared to give it even though people won't like what I have to say - because that means I think you will have to get better something I think you are all capable of.

Because of that, I take a lot of heat for my position here at OS and slider adjusting was the PRIMARY reason I joined the forum. That being said, I am always open minded. I love the game as much as everyone and I'm willing to bet that Jwill and I have spent as much time with the game as anyone on the planet has (cheesers excepted)...lol.

Bottom line is I love the game, I can tell Jwill loves the game and many of you are experts in your own right as well so I know I'm not talking to people don't know what they are doing or who don't have strong opinions as well.

With that being said..

Previously, I had tried someone else's slider set to be used hand in hand with someone else's rosters. They were supposed to give me "realistic stats" but I found them incredible easy. Once the first quarter finished, I pretty much torched the CPU from outside because they weren't guarding me well enough. That experience gave me the theory that sliders are incredibly personalized based on whoever is using them's skill, the difficulty level and sliders you are used too.

Recently, some of the forum members and I had a long drawn out argument about these hall of fame "boosts" and how I think that while they are there, they can be rendered irrelevant if you play well enough. I know that a lot of time and effort was put into establishing that these boosts are and I don't deny that, that's just my experience.

During that conversation, a lot was said about "realistic stats" and it was again suggested that slider adjustments will give me that. It's my theory that eventually once I refine my play well enough, I will achieve realistic stats vs the HOF CPU on sim sliders, have realistic games and have fun while doing it. I've made some great strides in that process already holding the CPU under a 100 before holding their shot percentages down, keeping them off the glass, etc. It's not easy though and takes a lot of effort.

In that discussion, I think it must have come up about your sliders or it just reminded me of them or someone gave me the impression that sliders would give me realistic stats and so I thought I would take yours for a spin and give you my feedback and observations in case you wanted it to hear it.

So I hope you don't mind me posting in your thread about my experience.

What I did was take a game I had previously played vs the HOF CPU Spurs with sim sliders and have all the stats from and then played the Spurs again with your sliders in HOF mode vs the CPU so you can compare them.

In the interest of full disclosure here, I played that game many weeks back and had a different playbook in it. In this one, I used the default playbook and freelanced a bit more. Here I played one game for practice to get used to them (considering I have played for hours with the sim ones, I thought that would be OK) and lost by four.

Then I played an official game for the comparison.

I've played the Spurs ALOT. Maybe 20 times. That's like 20 plus hours of scouting them. Because of that, I know what they like to do. I've been ripped to shreds by Tony Parker, torched by Ginobili and killed on the glass.

Most of the games I play against the Spurs and hall of fame in general find me in a 10 point deficit most of the way that I either dig out of and make a game of it or the game gets out of hand.

In the first practice game, it worked lot like that. I got down 10 or so for most of the game and even got down by 18 in the fourth and cut the lead down to 2 possessions with two minutes to go. Lost that game by 4 and gave up 17 offensive rebounds.

In the second game, I got up by 21 at one point and probably relaxed a bit and took some ill advised threes to see if could knock them out. They finally got back in it cutting it to 7 in the fourth before I got the lead back up.

Compared to the other persons sliders, I will say these sliders were tougher than the previous ones I had used mainly because I was played tight all over the floor and the paint was well protected. Help was strong.

So here are the stats with some additional comments below them.

TEAM STATS HOF VS CPU SPURS USING SIMULATION SLIDERS









TEAM STATS HOF VS CPU SPURS WITH YOUR SLIDERS









What I found interesting was that I shot the same percentage from the field and had the same number of points in the paint on both slider sets.

The CPU shot a little better on the sim sliders and took more threes.

The main difference was I had to get Hibbert more involved in the game with your sliders and Granger was shut down and because of your settings. The other thing I noticed is that iif you miss a shot, you aren't penalized if it's a bad one because the CPU doesn't run like it does on sim sliders. Usually it's tough to get Hibbert going against the Spurs because they are tough in there. But my guess is that the settings which brought more help and the fact that fatigue was slightly less helped out with Hibbert. In any case it was an inside affair.

Overall observations:

1. I felt the CPU hit more contested threes using your sliders in my practice game. In my "official game" I was prepared for that. On defense, I didn't change any settings, I was all auto and coaches default. I changed no coaching settings. I just made sure I defended those guys who would hit threes and that helped. But I did think contested shots as a whole went in more than usual but that's a feeling not a fact or anything considering the shooting percentage was under 50 percent for the game.
2. The defense was in my face the whole game making perimeter play alot tighter and open shots harder to come by. Iso and getting to the rim is a challenge.
3. Help defense was pretty obvious but since it came easy that made it easier to get buckets in the paint even though the paint was pretty locked down. Personally I think help comes to strong with the goal I suspect to keep you out of the paint. It could be just the Spurs since they defend well anyway but it reminded me of how players jack with their help and guys come flying over.
4. Even though fouls were increased in the sliders, I didn't get as many trips to the line as I thought I might considering I went to the line a lot in sim slider game..
5. It's probably my coaching sliders by my help doesn't come like the CPU Spurs does with the change in your sliders.
6. I thought the pass accuracy increase helped me get in the paint easier since my guys aren't accurate sometimes anyway. But it didn't change the turnover problem I have with the Pacers.
7. The CPU certainly doesn't fast break like I'm used to and it's still difficult for me to run on either set of sliders. I noticed everyone was already back always.

The CPU still does that attack the basket until it gets space when it gets in trouble (almost like users do) but that is not as much of a problem with your sliders and I still had my fair share of HOF CPU cheese.

My conclusion at the end of my experiment is that realistic stats are more of a conscious decision to some degree (as opposed to slider adjustments) in play style and how well one can execute their game plan. So difficulty probably matters more than slider adjustments but that's just my take. Meaning that if a realistic box score is your goal, lower difficulty levels might make that easier to obtain until you good enough to do it at higher levels. Based on my best guess, pro on sim slider probably makes that the easiest vs the CPU.

Overall, I'm sure you've done comparisons and none of these results is news to you.

Good work on the sliders. While I won't be adopting them (because I'm on a different mission here with a different philosophy) I did want to try them out and I truly appreciate your passion for the game and the value you add to the forums.

EDIT: I wasn't entirely sure if the sliders were meant for CPU play and used the ones at the beginning of the thread.



Sup coach2k, just read your post and hope you realize that the sliders don't make everything realistic just like that. They're there to help bring the game to a realistic level. Like you said, it's not really the sliders that bring the realism but the user. Everyone does play differently to one another.

That being said, these sliders are the closest you can get to playing other users online with "box scores" looking like an actual NBA game with a few adjustments that are neccessary. You can use them exactly how they are or like me you can use them as a base to work off.

You have to adjust sliders, HAVE too.. if someone is driving to the lane too much or passing it in easily or constantly dunking it (PIP), raise on ball D? hands? lower dunks? success? etc.. someone shoots too many 3s? lower 3pt success, raise gather or release defenses?

In conclusion adjusting "sliders" will bring you your realistic scores, it's just adjusting them to your game play (user/cpu) until they a right.

Online Association, totally different story..adjusting 1 set of sliders to be used by 29 other players is quite the challenge. Nearly impossible but I'm bridging the gap between Great players and Poor players so all can be even and better competition. Thanks to JWILL
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