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Old 05-01-2013, 02:46 PM   #825
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
From Slimm's guide:

Pull Up
Subjective. Only 0 and 25 were given to reduce insane amount of shots taken by higher numbers.

Looks like he had this one nailed already.
And this was prior to him messing with the the drive the lane slider. Do you still think you see to many pull ups now that we're messing with DTL?

I'm still seeing a lot of plays break up early because someone got ancy and tried to drive when they shouldn't have.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #826
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
I want to get this on paper before I forget to test it.

contest shot is a slider for intense D, the blocking slider drastically effects how wildly someone will swing at a jump shot,

I would like for a player to play body up defense but not look like an idiot when he jumps to challenge a jumpshot. Is there a middle ground?

The sliders in question are.

On ball defense.

Contest shot.

Defensive awareness????

A combination of these three should lead to a realistic defense without over playing the shot.
I would posit that "contest shot" is only for whether the defensive player challenges the shot or not.

If you want more 'contact' on shots without the defender leaving his feet (looking stupid) I would say that On Ball D rating is most important.

Inside and Contact shot frequency might help as well.

Blocking slider is for accuracy of blocks. Wildly swinging would fall under contest shot tendency, the accuracy of that contest would fall to blocking rating (slider), its possible hands (rating) is in the mix as well.

So; OBD + blocking + hands (?) + DAWR + contest shot tend = Defense for shots

So; OBD + stealing + hands (?) + DAWR + on-ball steal + steal success = Defense for shots

I would also like to say that I believe off hand dribbling rating is the rating for all off hand things that happen in game, ie (stealing with off hand, blocking, dribbling, layups, passing) coupled with the rating of w/e it is, ex: stealing + ohd = off hand steal rating
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Last edited by JasonWilliams55; 05-01-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:13 PM   #827
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
I would posit that "contest shot" is only for whether the defensive player challenges the shot or not.

If you want more 'contact' on shots without the defender leaving his feet (looking stupid) I would say that On Ball D rating is most important.

Inside and Contact shot frequency might help as well.

Blocking slider is for accuracy of blocks. Wildly swinging would fall under contest shot tendency, the accuracy of that contest would fall to blocking rating (slider), its possible hands (rating) is in the mix as well.

So; OBD + blocking + hands (?) + DAWR + contest shot tend = Defense for shots

So; OBD + stealing + hands (?) + DAWR + on-ball steal + steal success = Defense for shots

I would also like to say that I believe off hand dribbling rating is the rating for all off hand things that happen in game, ie (stealing with off hand, blocking, dribbling, layups, passing) coupled with the rating of w/e it is, ex: stealing + ohd = off hand steal rating
You're exactly right but challenging a shot is not just at the point of release. I agree, on ball d is pivotal in staying glued to the ball handler but harassing the ballhandler in a neutral situation falls under contest shot (I cranked the in game slider up to 100 to see what would happen). They jump unnecessarily but they are significantly more active prior to the shot in a way that I could not achieve with just high levels of on ball D.

Edit: Update on freelance testing

High levels of isolation for a player is bad for his post game.

Take Tim Duncan as an example. If I want him to stand at the top of the key I raise that spot up tendency. Sometimes he moves away from that spot, so to beat it into his head I raised his ISO tendency for the post wing right to 100. I though this would make him post up at the high right block but NO.

ISO means ISO. He will not post up. Instead he will try to shake his defender and everyone will laugh at him.

Spot up on the other hand can lead to both Iso or post up, but the problem is players tend to lunchbox and wander away from their spot. This doesn't happen often if you have the floor spaced correctly but players for sure have the ability to go wherever they want whenever they want.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 05-01-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:03 PM   #828
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
And this was prior to him messing with the the drive the lane slider. Do you still think you see to many pull ups now that we're messing with DTL?

I'm still seeing a lot of plays break up early because someone got ancy and tried to drive when they shouldn't have.
That was before we started going through the madness which is this thread. At the time, I used the DTL-PU-ATB formula that we're using now. My understanding wasn't corrupted by an all-powerful ATB tendency. It should be good.

I have been messing with a combination of Drive the Lane and Pass Out while leaving Attack the Basket and Pull Up at 0. Personally, I really like what I see. It really comes down to asthetics, though. What I like to see may not be what somebody else likes to see, you know?

I think that the Attack the Basket tendency is really strong this year and is why I was seeing people going to the rim like crazy with DTL at 0.
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Last edited by slimm44; 05-01-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:29 PM   #829
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
You're exactly right but challenging a shot is not just at the point of release. I agree, on ball d is pivotal in staying glued to the ball handler but harassing the ballhandler in a neutral situation falls under contest shot (I cranked the in game slider up to 100 to see what would happen). They jump unnecessarily but they are significantly more active prior to the shot in a way that I could not achieve with just high levels of on ball D.
agreed, i saw the same thing.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:37 PM   #830
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
agreed, i saw the same thing.
So the new tightrope question is, what is the magic number to make dudes body up but not turn in to a majic jumping bean, I'll start at 50 and play around till I have an answer
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:34 PM   #831
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
That was before we started going through the madness which is this thread. At the time, I used the DTL-PU-ATB formula that we're using now. My understanding wasn't corrupted by an all-powerful ATB tendency. It should be good.

I have been messing with a combination of Drive the Lane and Pass Out while leaving Attack the Basket and Pull Up at 0. Personally, I really like what I see. It really comes down to asthetics, though. What I like to see may not be what somebody else likes to see, you know?

I think that the Attack the Basket tendency is really strong this year and is why I was seeing people going to the rim like crazy with DTL at 0.
I think I'm gonna go the opposite way and use attack and leave drive the lane at 0. There are just too many lead passes with drive the lane at 1.

Ray Allen had an open 3 and Dwayne led him off the line for a contested lay up. This was with Ray having a drive the lane tendency at 5!!!.

The only detriment to relegating driving to attack is having to lower pull up and I'm okay with that if the outcome is completely eliminating cheap inside scoring.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:41 PM   #832
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
I think I'm gonna go the opposite way and use attack and leave drive the lane at 0. There are just too many lead passes with drive the lane at 1.

Ray Allen had an open 3 and Dwayne led him off the line for a contested lay up. This was with Ray having a drive the lane tendency at 5!!!.

The only detriment to relegating driving to attack is having to lower pull up and I'm okay with that if the outcome is completely eliminating cheap inside scoring.
So how did Ray's DTL tendency have any part of this cut/lead pass by DWade?

If anything caused this, it would probably be Inside/Close tendencies or backdoor cuts too high and since we don't know individual ratings/tends for backdoor cuts, I would start with lowering backdoor cuts global slider down to 0. I suspect that you won't be seeing that much anymore after that.
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