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Old 05-03-2013, 04:23 PM   #857
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Tried that, still saw the same amount, it helps to lower their other options of scoring as well, ie hop step euro step, fadeaway etc. so that you limit a player to escape dribble pull ups. It's the reason why I can get Jeff Hornececk to do it more than Lebron; Hornececk has very few options other than pull up from triple threat.

When you analyze what a one dribble pull up is: A pull up shot FROM the triple threat after a dribble move. And that dribble move is usually an in&out or a crossover. I'm not sure if its placebo but I think I saw more escape pull ups after I raised in and out.

But I still can't make them consistently do it from 3pt range.
That is the definition in real life. However by 2K logic a one dribble pull up is an escape dribble pull up. The only way to make escape dribble pulls remotely viable is to either lower the contest sliders (like I'm doing) or universally change everyones Escape Dribble Pull up animation to Elite 2 (which is about as close as 2k gets to real life dribble pull up speed and effectiveness).

Edit: Have you tried decreasing no triple threat to 0 as well?

Last edited by DukeC; 05-03-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:30 PM   #858
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeC
That is the definition in real life. However by 2K logic a one dribble pull up is an escape dribble pull up. The only way to make escape dribble pulls remotely viable is to either lower the contest sliders (like I'm doing) or universally change everyones Escape Dribble Pull up animation to Elite 2 (which is about as close as 2k gets to real life dribble pull up speed and effectiveness).
Contest shot has some input on the frequency of escape dribble pull-ups?

Can you prove that? Also I remember you and Hype saying something about elite 2. What is that and what does it mean to gameplay?

Edit: yes, I lowered no triple threat to zero as well. I played with every combination imaginable and I've only been able to get Lebron to escape dribble pull up from 3pt range 4 times.

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Old 05-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #859
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

QpC123, here is a status update on DTL/Attack tendency:

A dab'll do ya.

For elite slashers like Lebron and Dwayne I'm having a lot of success with drive the lane in the range of 30-45. Combine that with a lowered attack tendency 40-60 and you get realistic penetration without sacrificing playcalling gameplay. It appears for everyone that is not a pg passing has to stay below 50 or you'll see players passing out to early.

Because we've made similar on ball defense and ball handling edits it doesn't require much for a ball handler to get by his man(which is so cool, by the way), and if help defense is set correctly than a player will be undeniably open, and the kick out pass will come from Lebron or Dwayne even with a 50 in pass out.

For big guys the same scale applies but it needs to be lower (I no longer hate Haslem). For Bosh and Haslem I gave them a 10 and a 5 in DTL respectively. This cuts down on lead pass stupidity (it still happens) but they will opportunistically drive if the opportunity presents itself. Pass out and attack also need to be scaled back for bigs. Bosh's tendency to drive the lane tendency makes him move to his post up hot spot and back his defender down (YES) but if his attack is above 30 then he will keep probing and bouncing off of his defender. I set him to 25 in attack and 20 in pass out and he is very smart with the ball now and will pass out if a double team comes. The lower pass out also keeps Dwayne and Haslem from slashing to the lane for a cheap bucket.

Can I get an update on how your doing?

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Old 05-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #860
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeC
That is the definition in real life. However by 2K logic a one dribble pull up is an escape dribble pull up. The only way to make escape dribble pulls remotely viable is to either lower the contest sliders (like I'm doing) or universally change everyones Escape Dribble Pull up animation to Elite 2 (which is about as close as 2k gets to real life dribble pull up speed and effectiveness).

Edit: Have you tried decreasing no triple threat to 0 as well?
I will list some things that should be looked at first. But the shot loc tendency + TTS tendency need to be high enough to warrant a shot first. Now shot rating may also figure into that equation as well.

Secondly, here are some things to consider, OAWR might not be > enough, making the offensive player 'blind' so to speak, defense might be too good, so look at lowering On Ball D to create space for players to pull with the 'extra room' the new lower rated defender will give them, DAWR could be lowered possibly giving the same effect.

Upon further review of raising the contest shot slider, I am unsure if it actually causes anything before the shot, so I believe now that the contest shot tend is a reactionary tendency to the shot attempt probably coupled with DAWR for reaction time (?) maybe even block/vertical ratings as well (?). After reading BigTreys thoughts I was thinking that they were more aggressive on defense (on ball wise), but after lowering it back down I did not see anything really different. Will need to continue to play with the slider some more. Right now I have it on 60 global slider, which is a 10*1.5 = 15 increase on every players contest shot tendency, making a 50->65, a 65->80 and an 80->95, I've seen more knocked balls and an overall more aggressiveness towards the shot (jumping towards shooter, even from a distance when they weren't in position and they wouldn't have IRL).

It needs to be tested with different types of DAWR + OBD ratings in a controlled manner to really see. During games, I cannot tell if there is anything different other than jumping for shot blocks/pumps. Too many ratings/tends to consider, hence the reason for a controlled test.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #861
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Contest shot has some input on the frequency of escape dribble pull-ups?

Can you prove that? Also I remember you and Hype saying something about elite 2. What is that and what does it mean to gameplay?

Edit: yes, I lowered no triple threat to zero as well. I played with every combination imaginable and I've only been able to get Lebron to escape dribble pull up from 3pt range 4 times.
Not the frequency, but the effectiveness. And what I mean by the contest shot slider I mean the slider where you go to Game Sliders > CPU > Defense > Jumpshot Defense (Gather) and Jump Shot Defense (Release).

My bad for the confusion.

As far as Elite Dribble Pull Up 2. Go into the Rosters, select a player (preferably a PG/SG/ or SF) and go into Signature. Look there until you find Escape Dribble Pull Up. Elite 2 comes closest in terms of speed and getting you an open look, but Stiff may also work because it covers a fair amount of ground in-game (as it can take you from mid range to behind the 3point line before shooting).

Now what it means for gameplay is that ALL of the Dribble Pulls except for Elite 2 are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too slow for the computer to use against itself (or for the User to use against the CPU). The purpose of a pull up is to shoot before the defender can get a hand in your face and affect your shot. It also for the taller players lets you shoot over smaller defenders. Elite 2 does both as nearly all the animations in the package (except for 1) are capable of elevating you above your defender and getting your shot off quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
I will list some things that should be looked at first. But the shot loc tendency + TTS tendency need to be high enough to warrant a shot first. Now shot rating may also figure into that equation as well.

Secondly, here are some things to consider, OAWR might not be > enough, making the offensive player 'blind' so to speak, defense might be too good, so look at lowering On Ball D to create space for players to pull with the 'extra room' the new lower rated defender will give them, DAWR could be lowered possibly giving the same effect.

Upon further review of raising the contest shot slider, I am unsure if it actually causes anything before the shot, so I believe now that the contest shot tend is a reactionary tendency to the shot attempt probably coupled with DAWR for reaction time (?) maybe even block/vertical ratings as well (?). After reading BigTreys thoughts I was thinking that they were more aggressive on defense (on ball wise), but after lowering it back down I did not see anything really different. Will need to continue to play with the slider some more. Right now I have it on 60 global slider, which is a 10*1.5 = 15 increase on every players contest shot tendency, making a 50->65, a 65->80 and an 80->95, I've seen more knocked balls and an overall more aggressiveness towards the shot (jumping towards shooter, even from a distance when they weren't in position and they wouldn't have IRL).

It needs to be tested with different types of DAWR + OBD ratings in a controlled manner to really see. During games, I cannot tell if there is anything different other than jumping for shot blocks/pumps. Too many ratings/tends to consider, hence the reason for a controlled test.
I named the slider wrong. When I said contest slider I meant the Jumpshot Defense (Release&Gather) slider. Sorry for the confusion.

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Old 05-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #862
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Having a att/po ratio close to 1:1 will provide the best gameplay, cause it will give the CPU a 50/50 chance of shooting/passing when the 'drive/spot up' finishes. Of course some players need to be a different ratio cause that is how they are, but trying to keep it as close to possible to 1:1 will make them seem smarter/more unpredictable.

1 attack, 1 pass out is = to 100 attack, 100 pass out.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:38 PM   #863
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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I named the slider wrong. When I said contest slider I meant the Jumpshot Defense (Release&Gather) slider. Sorry for the confusion.
These sliders modify the defensive contest scores, meaning, raising release will scale the overall defensive rating towards the defensive rating at time of release, raising gather will scale the overall defensive rating towards the defensive rating at the time of the gather.

At 50/50 the game calculates the defensive score equally from both. I brought the question up to Da_Czar if 100/100 > 50/50 and he said that last he saw, it was not, as they produce the same ratio 1:1.

2k needs to put up a visual representation of defense ala the offense gets with shot feedback, I need feedback for my defense , its already in the game somewhat, but only in the form of MyPlayer.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:40 PM   #864
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
I will list some things that should be looked at first. But the shot loc tendency + TTS tendency need to be high enough to warrant a shot first. Now shot rating may also figure into that equation as well.

Secondly, here are some things to consider, OAWR might not be > enough, making the offensive player 'blind' so to speak, defense might be too good, so look at lowering On Ball D to create space for players to pull with the 'extra room' the new lower rated defender will give them, DAWR could be lowered possibly giving the same effect.

Upon further review of raising the contest shot slider, I am unsure if it actually causes anything before the shot, so I believe now that the contest shot tend is a reactionary tendency to the shot attempt probably coupled with DAWR for reaction time (?) maybe even block/vertical ratings as well (?). After reading BigTreys thoughts I was thinking that they were more aggressive on defense (on ball wise), but after lowering it back down I did not see anything really different. Will need to continue to play with the slider some more. Right now I have it on 60 global slider, which is a 10*1.5 = 15 increase on every players contest shot tendency, making a 50->65, a 65->80 and an 80->95, I've seen more knocked balls and an overall more aggressiveness towards the shot (jumping towards shooter, even from a distance when they weren't in position and they wouldn't have IRL).

It needs to be tested with different types of DAWR + OBD ratings in a controlled manner to really see. During games, I cannot tell if there is anything different other than jumping for shot blocks/pumps. Too many ratings/tends to consider, hence the reason for a controlled test.
I've put the slider back to 50 and I'm now trying to find the sweet spot between aggressively defending against the shot and jumping for no F-ing reason.

The most noticeable difference is in the post. With the contest shot slider at 100 defenders were really crowding the post man instead of staring at them and waiting for them to make a move. I may just raise contest shot for bigs.

Another problem, if someone has an 80 in block with a high contest shot then they swing for the fences on jumpshots, it looks so silly.

A controlled test is in order to figure out how to get appropriate levels of harassment without the subsequent jump.

J-Will, you think shot rating might be a factor in one dribble pull ups? I played with shot tendency (I gave Lebron an 89 in 3pt and then ran a gang of test). He shot a lot more assisted threes even with the D all over him, he even pulled up in transition a few times but the few one dribble pull up I got also came from Dwayne who had a 3pt shot tendency in the low 30s.

If you could help me out with this, that would be great.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 05-03-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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