Home
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-03-2013, 07:27 PM   #873
Banned
 
DukeC's Arena
 
OVR: 27
Join Date: Jul 2011
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I think I may have found my perfect sweet spot in terms of the effectiveness on closing out/contesting jumpers.

0 (Jump Shot Gather)
50-60 (Jump Shot Release)

What this does is allow taller players to reliably shoot over smaller and/or lesser defenders without much penalty (only go down from a B to B- or even no penalty at all if the player has a 5+ inch height advantage and a low contest shot tendency).

At first I was just hoping I could get the "Hands down Man down" reliably implemented into the game. As a nice side effect I was also able to increase the effectiveness of face up jumpers out of the post. Now, instead of getting a C- for doing a face up jumper (because of the Gather defense being too high) I'm now able to get B and B-. Making this an effective tactic for face up big men.

Now if only there was a slider that increased the effectiveness of Post Fadeaways
DukeC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 07:31 PM   #874
Banned
 
DukeC's Arena
 
OVR: 27
Join Date: Jul 2011
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
Duke, play with the ratios for the shot GnR more, well I originally thought having a higher number even if ratio remained the same would equal stronger results and this somewhat proves it but Czar has 1st hand knowledge of this exact slider and says otherwise. 55/70 divide by 5 = 11/14, try that ratio for shot g/r and see if the results are the same as 55/70. Easiest way to confirm. If the results come back with lessened shot defense, then that would mean 40/80 > 20/40.
Ah, didn't see this. Will test out the ratios for you (though I already have my personal one). Are you planning on implementing this into your new sliders?

Edit: This game man. 70% of the time the results would indicate that ,yes, the higher the number the greater affect it has and vice versa, then that random 30% of the time where 2k decides to give the defender a perfect contest (that super speedy warping closeout) and then the shotfeedback indicates a D to a D- for the grade no matter the number on the slider (which would indicate that it is indeed a ratio).

Last edited by DukeC; 05-03-2013 at 08:10 PM.
DukeC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 07:42 PM   #875
Pro
 
bigtreydawg's Arena
 
OVR: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Vic
Blog Entries: 1
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
@bigtrey, I am now understanding your explanation of Attack the Basket and Pass Out.

I'll break it down to make sure I got you right and in case anyone else wasn't getting it either.

Attack the Basket and Pass Out are two completely different tendencies.

I thinking of it this way(helps to put yourself in the mind of the player).

So, as the player I have the ball, now what? Well I have three choices, I can shoot, I can try to score myself(drive), or I can pass the ball to a teammate.

Now you have to decide what kind of player you are. A scorer, a pass first point guard, spot up shooter, etc.

Let's say I am a scorer for the first example. I am going to want to attack, so I need to have a fairly high tendency to do so.

The Attack the Basket tendency slider effects the frequency in which you make the choice to drive, perhaps a better description of this slider would be "Offensive Aggression". I do not think this slider much effect on what the player does after this decision. I tend to think of it as an "if/then scenario."

Do I have the ball? - Yes
Do I want to attempt to score? - Yes
Do I want to shoot right now? - NO
Do I want to drive - Yes?

Pass Out works in a similar manner and may have more of an effect on what the player does if he decides to attack.

Let's pick up where I was with the "if/then" where the ball has decided to drive.

Am I going to get a shot off this drive? - This is where I think Pass Out starts to kick in
If yes, then shoot(lay-up, dunk, pull up J)
If no, then pass out

The lower the Pass Out slider the more likely the player is the think, "hey I got a lane I'm gonna score" even if the defense is a position to get a possible stop. From there ratings take over to decide the players success based off the shot type he chose.

The higher the Pass Out the more likely a player is to give up a contested shot for a better look from a teammate.

So, how are we to set these?

For guards and forwards(and some rare faceup bigs) slimm's ATB=Inside shot tend. PO=Pass rating works pretty well.

For Bigs, this is where I am having issues.

I'll use Manute Bol as my example:
ATB=0
PO=75



I have seen this happen a lot with the 0,75 setting. But you have said 50 makes them too indecisive. There must a sweet spot in the middle.
At this point in the thread we were playing with DTL at 0 for all players.

Edit: I see that 2K made it a ratio out of 100. They are also the ones responsible for having 70+ points in the paint. And their the reason why we think the attack the basket coach profile slider should be no higher than 1 (not everyone, but most slider guys).

After the edits I made I'm able to keep the Heat to 38 - 45 points in the paint and have the attack the basket coach profile slider at 30. And I'm still working out the kinks.

Also I'm positive that Westbrook is going to break playcalling with a 70/30 setting. Give Durant the Iso play 23 SOLO and watch Westbrook dribble in place until the pass icon disappears and he is free to do what he wants.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 05-03-2013 at 08:33 PM.
bigtreydawg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 05-03-2013, 08:27 PM   #876
MVP
 
JasonWilliams55's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Downtown Sacramento
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Attack the Basket and Pass Out are two completely different tendencies.

I thinking of it this way(helps to put yourself in the mind of the player).

So, as the player I have the ball, now what? Well I have three choices, I can shoot, I can try to score myself(drive), or I can pass the ball to a teammate. Drive or Spot (shoot) are the two main options once a pass is caught, TT/TTS, Post up are options as well.

Now you have to decide what kind of player you are. A scorer, a pass first point guard, spot up shooter, etc. For a spot up shooter who does not drive make DTL really low (or high in Spot Up) like 5, they will never drive and will look to pull with any room. For a driver without a jumper (andre miller) give a high DTL.

Let's say I am a scorer for the first example. I am going to want to attack, so I need to have a fairly high tendency to do so. Before you can 'attack' the rim, you have to get there first, how does one with the ball go from 3 line to the paint? They have to drive first. Again ATT/PO only kicks in at the end of a drive.

The Attack the Basket tendency slider effects the frequency in which you make the choice to drive, perhaps a better description of this slider would be "Offensive Aggression". I do not think this slider much effect on what the player does after this decision. I tend to think of it as an "if/then scenario."

DTL or Spot up (shoot)
Do I have the ball? - Yes YES
Do I want to attempt to score? - Yes - NO NO NO, only if spot up is high enough couple with shot loc tends. But even then it would still be DTL/SU -> ATT/PO
Do I want to shoot right now? - NO SPOT UP
Do I want to drive - Yes? DRIVE

Pass Out works in a similar manner and may have more of an effect on what the player does if he decides to attack. Pass out works exactly the same as ATT, at the end of the drive the player can do two things, attack or pass out. They are weighted against each other, a ratio of how often the player will do one or the other.

Let's pick up where I was with the "if/then" where the ball has decided to drive. After a drive has initiated at any time, the player can go to ATT/PO, depending on Pull/Pen will determine (when avail) whether he will pull (given enough space) or continue to push (pen) through, again at any time ATT/PO can kick in, defense can force this as well with the body contact animation, or a steal attempt stopping the drive.

Am I going to get a shot off this drive? - This is where I think Pass Out starts to kick in
If yes, then shoot(lay-up, dunk, pull up J)
If no, then pass out

^^
But this is only after the drive has started. Again DTL/SU -> ATT/PO


The lower the Pass Out slider the more likely the player is the think, "hey I got a lane I'm gonna score" even if the defense is a position to get a possible stop. From there ratings take over to decide the players success based off the shot type he chose.

The lower the PO the greater the chance the player will look to score off the drive, whether its a pull up J, lay or dunk. Not hey I got a lane, that would be DTL, higher DTL/SU ratio provides this "hey I got a lane lets go" mentality, once the drive has started it goes into the Pull/Pen to get the next thought "continue to drive (pen) or pull up for the shot".


The higher the Pass Out the more likely a player is to give up a contested shot for a better look from a teammate.

So, how are we to set these?

For guards and forwards(and some rare faceup bigs) slimm's ATB=Inside shot tend. PO=Pass rating works pretty well.

For Bigs, this is where I am having issues.

I'll use Manute Bol as my example:
ATB=0
PO=75

So you would literally have him not try and score after a drive even with room to do so? What player IRL would pass up an open score to dish it out? Very rarely, maybe on a 2 on 0 fastbreak to an open 3 point shooter, that is about the only scenario I can think of right now, even then it would be rare to see.

At this point in the thread we were playing with DTL at 0 for all players.


Well I can tell you that having 0/75 for att/po will produce pass outs only at the end of a 'drive'. In that video, he passed to an open cutter (Barkley?) what is wrong with that? I don't see what the video provided in any way.

A "drive" in 2k means everything under the sun once the player receives the ball.

So again, catch ball -> DTL/SU/TT/TTS/POST -> once a drive starts ->Pull/pen, at any time the player can att/po. higher the att ratio to po the greater the chance they will look to shoot, lay, dunk to complete said drive. Again pull/pen determines whether to continue to force their way. Post is in there somewhere too, probably when Pull/Pen, so DTL/SU/TT/TTS/Post ->Pull/Pen/Post -> Att/PO
__________________
"Most people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them"

JasonWilliams55 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 08:30 PM   #877
MVP
 
JasonWilliams55's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Downtown Sacramento
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
At this point in the thread we were playing with DTL at 0 for all players.

Edit: I see that 2K made it a ratio out of 100. They are also the ones responsible for having 70+ points in the paint. And their the reason why we think the attack the basket coach profile slider should be no higher than 1 (not everyone, but most slider guys).

After the edits I made I'm able to keep the Heat to 38 - 45 points in the paint and have the attack the basket coach profile slider at 30. And I'm still working out the kinks.
So rather than learn to stop the CPU offense, you essentially neuter them so they wont attack, therefore making it easier to play defense? I have had no problems stopping the CPU, yes sometimes they force things, but thats ball, last night in the DEN/GS game, there was a point there in the 2nd where they were going back and forth, PG not passing off the miss and pushing hard into the paint. In real life bball, you try and get the easiest basket you can, which is a shot closest to the rim, a dunk or lay. Defense is what stops that from happening every play.

I think the opposite as you do here, the CPU should be aggressive and try to score in the paint, hell DENVER scores ~60 PiP, pack the paint and force them to shoot jumpers. Give the defense a boost attribute wise, since the game is geared (rating wise) to the offense and walla the game is balanced on both sides. 3.0 is coming.....
__________________
"Most people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them"


Last edited by JasonWilliams55; 05-03-2013 at 08:37 PM.
JasonWilliams55 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 08:39 PM   #878
Banned
 
DukeC's Arena
 
OVR: 27
Join Date: Jul 2011
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

@JWill

Disregard what I said at the end of my previous post. The GnR slider is NOT ratio based. 1:1 is not the same as 100:100 (which would equal a 1:1 ratio correct?).

With it at 1:1 there was no effect on the shot whatsoever. If there was any it was slight (as the letter grade on the shot feedback did not decrease at all and everything was green).

With it at 10:10 was the same result. This seems to be the threshold before shots start truly getting effected.

With it at 11:11 the shot feedback grade was impacted to the extent of (B to B- on heavily contested shots).

With it at 50:50 the contest indicator turned red only when the defender left his feet. Otherwise the indicator was yellow if you shot in someone's face, but did not contest. The grade was impacted by 2 increments (B- to a C for example) when in the red.

With it at 100:100 anything if it looked like a defender had a hand up the contested shot indicator turned red and the grade immediately dropped down to D or an F depending on the shot rating of the person shooting. It never went above D even with the best shooters.
DukeC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #879
Banned
 
DukeC's Arena
 
OVR: 27
Join Date: Jul 2011
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
So rather than learn to stop the CPU offense, you essentially neuter them so they wont attack, therefore making it easier to play defense? I have had no problems stopping the CPU, yes sometimes they force things, but thats ball, last night in the DEN/GS game, there was a point there in the 2nd where they were going back and forth, PG not passing off the miss and pushing hard into the paint. In real life bball, you try and get the easiest basket you can, which is a shot closest to the rim, a dunk or lay. Defense is what stops that from happening every play.

I think the opposite as you do here, the CPU should be aggressive and try to score in the paint, hell DENVER scores ~60 PiP, pack the paint and force them to shoot jumpers
. Give the defense a boost attribute wise, since the game is geared (rating wise) to the offense and walla the game is balanced on both sides. 3.0 is coming.....
The reason why there are so many points in the paint in this game is becuase after a fast break (with no run play edits done in the coaching profile) the PG will drive to the paint a shoot a 2 foot 1 handed jumper instead of attempting a contested layup or dunk. Even SG's and SF will attempt to shoot a 2 foot 1 handed jumper if they can't get all the way to the rim. This is mainly what causes that inflation of PIP for the CPU as that type of shot goes in way to often.

I'd be content if we could influence the amount of standing floaters after recieving a pass and/or doing 1 or 2 dribbles (as that's how points are really scored in the paint aside from dunks and layups). Unfortunately 2k has only 1 standing floater and it's absolutely terrible.
DukeC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 08:52 PM   #880
MVP
 
JasonWilliams55's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Downtown Sacramento
Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeC
@JWill

Disregard what I said at the end of my previous post. The GnR slider is NOT ratio based. 1:1 is not the same as 100:100 (which would equal a 1:1 ratio correct?).

With it at 1:1 there was no effect on the shot whatsoever. If there was any it was slight (as the letter grade on the shot feedback did not decrease at all and everything was green).

With it at 10:10 was the same result. This seems to be the threshold before shots start truly getting effected.

With it at 11:11 the shot feedback grade was impacted to the extent of (B to B- on heavily contested shots).

With it at 50:50 the contest indicator turned red only when the defender left his feet. Otherwise the indicator was yellow if you shot in someone's face, but did not contest. The grade was impacted by 2 increments (B- to a C for example) when in the red.

With it at 100:100 anything if it looked like a defender had a hand up the contested shot indicator turned red and the grade immediately dropped down to D or an F depending on the shot rating of the person shooting. It never went above D even with the best shooters.
Awesome then it confirms my original assessment of the slider (from a while ago) and it also proves that higher ratio #s produce a greater effect.
__________________
"Most people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them"

JasonWilliams55 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Basketball > NBA 2K Basketball > NBA 2K Last Gen > NBA 2K Last Gen Sliders »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:24 AM.

Top -