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Old 05-04-2013, 01:57 AM   #897
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
Have had that same exact thought, never pursued the pass to post slider though as last year I believe sim sliders had it up like 83 or so. It has always been like that for as long as I can think back with 2k.
That's how I always remember having it, and never thought other wise until I really started for looking for the cause of the CPU passes to un-open cutters.

If 'Pass Out' is only for at the end of drives, then I thought there had to be some kind "passing aggression" slider. I know that pass rating and shot tendencies and other factors are at play, but none of them really seem to be a justifiable reason for the CPU to seem to always be looking for the player closet to the rim as opposed to the most logic pass(i.e. post to post pass vs pass back out to perimeter).

For players like Magic it isn't really an issue as I can deal with him doing it since he had a tendency to do so IRL. It's guys like Cartwright that are the issue. Based off my "scouting" of the '91 Bulls, they went to Cartwright early in the post(or tried to at times, when MJ felt like it, he really wasn't a 'great' teammate till later in the season/playoffs, but thats a whole other discussion). This does not mean that he shot the ball every time(10.3 FGA/per 36 min, 28.8 MPG), but he got a lot of touches(actually this was common for a lot of teams back then as centers were a bigger part of the game).

What should I look at to attempt to have a team start the offense with a post touch?

My initial ideas are:

1) Shot location tendencies - don't want them so low he passes up obviously open shots at the rim, but not so high that he "attacks" to get to inside range too often.

2) Post shot tendency - Having this too low leads to a lot of back to the basket stationary dribbling with no attack.

What tendency or combo of tendencies would be considered the "pass out of post" tendencies?
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:14 AM   #898
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by qpc123
That's how I always remember having it, and never thought other wise until I really started for looking for the cause of the CPU passes to un-open cutters.

If 'Pass Out' is only for at the end of drives, then I thought there had to be some kind "passing aggression" slider. I know that pass rating and shot tendencies and other factors are at play, but none of them really seem to be a justifiable reason for the CPU to seem to always be looking for the player closet to the rim as opposed to the most logic pass(i.e. post to post pass vs pass back out to perimeter).

For players like Magic it isn't really an issue as I can deal with him doing it since he had a tendency to do so IRL. It's guys like Cartwright that are the issue. Based off my "scouting" of the '91 Bulls, they went to Cartwright early in the post(or tried to at times, when MJ felt like it, he really wasn't a 'great' teammate till later in the season/playoffs, but thats a whole other discussion). This does not mean that he shot the ball every time(10.3 FGA/per 36 min, 28.8 MPG), but he got a lot of touches(actually this was common for a lot of teams back then as centers were a bigger part of the game).

What should I look at to attempt to have a team start the offense with a post touch?

My initial ideas are:

1) Shot location tendencies - don't want them so low he passes up obviously open shots at the rim, but not so high that he "attacks" to get to inside range too often.

2) Post shot tendency - Having this too low leads to a lot of back to the basket stationary dribbling with no attack.

What tendency or combo of tendencies would be considered the "pass out of post" tendencies?
For that I would consult playbooks. I know that 2000 Kings have a few good Post pass plays (Divac). And there is a play in the 94 Hornets(I think that's the year) playbook that leads to a 3 from the post. This may be your best option other than double team and kick out.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:52 AM   #899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
That's how I always remember having it, and never thought other wise until I really started for looking for the cause of the CPU passes to un-open cutters.

If 'Pass Out' is only for at the end of drives, then I thought there had to be some kind "passing aggression" slider. I know that pass rating and shot tendencies and other factors are at play, but none of them really seem to be a justifiable reason for the CPU to seem to always be looking for the player closet to the rim as opposed to the most logic pass(i.e. post to post pass vs pass back out to perimeter).

For players like Magic it isn't really an issue as I can deal with him doing it since he had a tendency to do so IRL. It's guys like Cartwright that are the issue. Based off my "scouting" of the '91 Bulls, they went to Cartwright early in the post(or tried to at times, when MJ felt like it, he really wasn't a 'great' teammate till later in the season/playoffs, but thats a whole other discussion). This does not mean that he shot the ball every time(10.3 FGA/per 36 min, 28.8 MPG), but he got a lot of touches(actually this was common for a lot of teams back then as centers were a bigger part of the game).

What should I look at to attempt to have a team start the offense with a post touch?

My initial ideas are:

1) Shot location tendencies - don't want them so low he passes up obviously open shots at the rim, but not so high that he "attacks" to get to inside range too often.

2) Post shot tendency - Having this too low leads to a lot of back to the basket stationary dribbling with no attack.

What tendency or combo of tendencies would be considered the "pass out of post" tendencies?
Leave post is basically the pass out of post tendency. I tested this last year and it was pretty clear. Of course as BigTrey noted there are also plays that work well for it too.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:54 AM   #900
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
For that I would consult playbooks. I know that 2000 Kings have a few good Post pass plays (Divac). And there is a play in the 94 Hornets(I think that's the year) playbook that leads to a 3 from the post. This may be your best option other than double team and kick out.
That was what I had been using, but as players tend to shoot the ball more over the course of me watching a CPU v CPU game than they do in sim test, I have to work out:

A) the shot location tendencies

and B) shoot from post.
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:46 AM   #901
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
J-Will I plugged in your sliders and the occurence of more pull up 3s seems to be related to perimeter defensive pressure.

Carmelo and JR tendencies are strikingly low for take 3pt shot but the take triple threat shot and pull up are what they should be for escape dribble pull ups to occur. The default coach profile has Take 3 much higher than the other shot location tendencies which is normal.

So the only thing I can attribute this to is your lowered on ball defense(i watched it on pro not HOF, does that matter?)It's like the CPU knows there is a bad defender in front of him and is willing to pull up. I did not see three in the first quarter but over the course of a 48 minute game there were 5 from a team that is known to take liberties with 3pt attempts so it was still a disappointing result.

Tomorrow I'm gonna try lowering defensive pressure and contest shot . . . And gather and release to see if that makes a difference.

I wish there was a slider for one dribble pull ups
Needs to be on HOF, if not, the attributes will be all jacked, these sliders were made for HOF, numbers would need to be redone for Pro. Tendencies are fine, but the shooting sliders + attributes + defense would need to be reworked for Pro mode.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:17 AM   #902
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by JasonWilliams55
Needs to be on HOF, if not, the attributes will be all jacked, these sliders were made for HOF, numbers would need to be redone for Pro. Tendencies are fine, but the shooting sliders + attributes + defense would need to be reworked for Pro mode.
That's what I figured, I only play on Pro or Allstar, but SLIMM tells me the difficulty boost manifest itself in needless aggression.

Besides a boost to attributes, what (if anything) is going on when you play at higher level of difficulty?

Edit: maybe they're more aggressive in all aspects and that's why you got more pull ups . . . I may be grasping at straws though.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 05-04-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:53 AM   #903
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by STLRams
Duke do you still feel that the gather/release on jump shots should still be 0/60? Also what about the layup gather/release?
Yes. I still think it should be 0/60.

As for as the layup gather and release. I don't know. I haven't really fooled around with that yet as I'm using HyperBaller's roster and he universally lowered everyone's layup drastically to stop contested layups from going in left and right.

I will try 50/90 and let you know how it goes though.
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Old 05-04-2013, 11:56 AM   #904
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by DukeC
Yes. I still think it should be 0/60.

As for as the layup gather and release. I don't know. I haven't really fooled around with that yet as I'm using HyperBaller's roster and he universally lowered everyone's layup drastically to stop contested layups from going in left and right.

I will try 50/90 and let you know how it goes though.
Oh cool I planned on lowering lay ups in addition to lowering standing dunk ratings, does that lead to more in game blocks or does it just increase that wonky sideways layup animation?
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