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Old 05-05-2013, 03:27 PM   #913
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I've been wanting to address that issue for a while, (post layup/shot)

What I can say for sure is the slider for inside contact shot frequency should actually read (inside contact shot "strength" frequency). For a while I had that slider at 100 and I was constantly get animations where a big would go up for a layup on a drop step or spin and he would get hammered and it would result in a weird over the shoulder shot. When I lowered it down to 50 those animations were far less frequent but there was still contact.

I'm gonna either PM Hype or better yet just plug in his edits to see if a higher offensive post rating will result in 'cleaner' lay up animations for bigs. (I get so sidetracked, I meant to do that a while ago).
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #914
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sellaz32
I had a very similar thought about layups..I mean...I don't want bigs missing layups, but what happened when I scaled them up was a lot more "fancy lay ups" from guys that shouldn't. I started viewing it as similar to the dunk rating. And the inside shot rating is scaled up as their percentage of layup success falls in that area.

Oh and I still stand by my leave post theory..lol. Give a big a 100 in leave post and he will constantly pass out...Regardless of his inside or close shot tendency.
If I may throw in a third monkey wrench, I think leave post makes you leave the post area. If you've seen guards with high tendencies for leave post get to the low block area with the ball they will back all the out and then go about business as usual.

To see that, turn "use post shot" to 100 and you will see guards go into back to basket mode and then back all the way out to the perimeter.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
If I may throw in a third monkey wrench, I think leave post makes you leave the post area. If you've seen guards with high tendencies for leave post get to the low block area with the ball they will back all the out and then go about business as usual.

To see that, turn "use post shot" to 100 and you will see guards go into back to basket mode and then back all the way out to the perimeter.
Makes sense...but since when did THAT matter in NBA 2K? Lol! Well I know last year I ran a test with Hakeem and did head to head matchups with 100 and 0 and it was clear. But this year may be a different story so I am open minded. Maybe I will get a chance to test later today.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #916
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sellaz32
Makes sense...but since when did THAT matter in NBA 2K? Lol! Well I know last year I ran a test with Hakeem and did head to head matchups with 100 and 0 and it was clear. But this year may be a different story so I am open minded. Maybe I will get a chance to test later today.
It probably makes big pass too. That is indeed another way to leave the post.

I haven't really tested the post game because, for the most part, I'm satisfied with how it plays out.

My only beef is when the CPU passes it to someone near the hoop and instead of doing anything intelligent they give you one pump fake and jump up (no dribble) and draw a foul. I don't know what to do about that, it's not like I want the player to leave that area, I just want him to do something smarter than close his eyes and yell YOLO!
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #917
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sellaz32
I had a very similar thought about layups..I mean...I don't want bigs missing layups, but what happened when I scaled them up was a lot more "fancy lay ups" from guys that shouldn't. I started viewing it as similar to the dunk rating. And the inside shot rating is scaled up as their percentage of layup success falls in that area.

Oh and I still stand by my leave post theory..lol. Give a big a 100 in leave post and he will constantly pass out...Regardless of his inside or close shot tendency.
Did a quick test of 'leave post' as 'pass out of post'. I left Bill Cartwright unchanged other than I raised his leave post to 100. I'm not gonna post the video as it got ugly quick(my MJ and Pippen are not big fans of 'running the play' right now).

Here is what I saw;

Did Cartwright seem more eager to pass out of the post?
Yes

Did he refuse to shoot from the post?
No

My conclusion(again based off very brief test):

It appears that the 'leave post' tendency does indeed increase the likely hood of a player passing back out to the perimeter once he receives a pass and is posted up.

However, this is where I get into my "Major/Minor tendency" theory, which is in a constant state of flux and has even evolved since my last post.

It is now my theory that, "any 'attack' tendency has the ability to override other tendencies."

All the shot locations(shot frequency), Drive the Lane, Attack, Post shot etc. are 'Major' tendencies.

With Post Shot at 50 Cartwright would still opt for a post shot over passing out. i.e. an 'attack'(major) tendency(post shot) with a setting of 50 was able to override a 'minor' tendency(leave post) with a 100 setting. Shot location was probably also a factor in the A.I.'s decision to shoot.

It is becoming clear to me that no matter what tendencies you give a player his first 'thought' is always to 'attack' in way or another, especially in there is not a play being run.

Lowering the CPU aggression is a fine line, where one step in the wrong direction can have drastic effects.

Since the A.I. seems hard coded to 'attack' if you take anyway too much of that ability you end with players that go into a "brain lock".

For example, if you lower inside shot tendencies across the board for players and set the coach and global sliders to zero you will players with the ball in front of a wide open basket
that just stand still and do nothing until another players interaction with them breaks them out of their "brain lock".

This seems to me more common with bigs than with guards.

They catch the ball in an area where they should be looking to shoot, but with their tendencies set against their attacking nature confusion sets in.

The A.I. player basically gets stuck in a thought loop along the lines of:
"I'm gonna shoot(hard coded attack), but I'm not supposed to(tendencies), but I really, really want to, but I really, really am not supposed to, but I really, really, really, want to shoot, etc.

In summation; 'leave post' will help to get players to pass back out of the post more often but must work in conjunction with other tendencies(namely shot location and post shot) to achieve the desired results.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #918
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
Did a quick test of 'leave post' as 'pass out of post'. I left Bill Cartwright unchanged other than I raised his leave post to 100. I'm not gonna post the video as it got ugly quick(my MJ and Pippen are not big fans of 'running the play' right now).

Here is what I saw;

Did Cartwright seem more eager to pass out of the post?
Yes

Did he refuse to shoot from the post?
No

My conclusion(again based off very brief test):

It appears that the 'leave post' tendency does indeed increase the likely hood of a player passing back out to the perimeter once he receives a pass and is posted up.

However, this is where I get into my "Major/Minor tendency" theory, which is in a constant state of flux and has even evolved since my last post.

It is now my theory that, "any 'attack' tendency has the ability to override other tendencies."

All the shot locations(shot frequency), Drive the Lane, Attack, Post shot etc. are 'Major' tendencies.

With Post Shot at 50 Cartwright would still opt for a post shot over passing out. i.e. an 'attack'(major) tendency(post shot) with a setting of 50 was able to override a 'minor' tendency(leave post) with a 100 setting. Shot location was probably also a factor in the A.I.'s decision to shoot.

It is becoming clear to me that no matter what tendencies you give a player his first 'thought' is always to 'attack' in way or another, especially in there is not a play being run.

Lowering the CPU aggression is a fine line, where one step in the wrong direction can have drastic effects.

Since the A.I. seems hard coded to 'attack' if you take anyway too much of that ability you end with players that go into a "brain lock".

For example, if you lower inside shot tendencies across the board for players and set the coach and global sliders to zero you will players with the ball in front of a wide open basket
that just stand still and do nothing until another players interaction with them breaks them out of their "brain lock".

This seems to me more common with bigs than with guards.

They catch the ball in an area where they should be looking to shoot, but with their tendencies set against their attacking nature confusion sets in.

The A.I. player basically gets stuck in a thought loop along the lines of:
"I'm gonna shoot(hard coded attack), but I'm not supposed to(tendencies), but I really, really want to, but I really, really am not supposed to, but I really, really, really, want to shoot, etc.

In summation; 'leave post' will help to get players to pass back out of the post more often but must work in conjunction with other tendencies(namely shot location and post shot) to achieve the desired results.
Here is a fun one I want you to run through your theory filter QPC123:

I'm closing in on what makes a player 1dribble pull up more often (kinda).

I'm not playing the game right now so these numbers are ball parked but close to accurate.

I can get Dwayne Wade to consistently one dribble pull up (even sometimes from 3pt range.)

His pull up tendency is 52. His shoot from triple threat 100 (I know) and his triple threat tendency is 94. More numbers -- his drive tendency is 42. His attack tendency is 45.

Here is where it gets fun. His 3pt shot tendency is only 36. That's it. His inside shot tendency is 74 and his mid range tendency is mid 60s.

When he catches the ball at the 3pt line in freelance he jab steps then does a 1 dribble pull up (often from a crossover or an in &out dribble). Sometimes he passes before the shot comes out sometimes he shoots, most times he just drives but even when he doesn't get to the rim he pretty consistently does an escape dribble pull up from midrange.

Now for the fun part I gave Lebron all of the same tendencies as Dwayne except for shot locations.

Lebron has a 94 in inside and a 56 for 3pt shot.

Lebron will not one dribble pull up from deep. At All! All of his 3pt attempts are assisted (catch and shoot). When he jab steps he drives hard to the hoop.

Here is my theory (I'll tell it like you do, lol):

Dwayne Wade: "I have the ball in the triple and my coach really wants us to shoot 3's (coach profile 75) but I don't like shooting 3's (36 3pt tendency) I love shooting from the triple threat (100) but this is to deep. Well I should be able to create more space for myself (94 jab step) and I like pulling up (52) so her goes nothing."

Does that seem right.

Because if it does, when I get back to it that means I should be able to achieve similar results if I lower Lebrons triple threat shot to 0. Does that makes sense?

"Coach wants me to shoot a 3, I love shooting 3s (56 3pt tendency) but I hate shooting from triple threat (0???) so I'm gonna pull up (52) from here.

Do you think that will work?

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 05-05-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:36 PM   #919
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Here is a fun one I want you to run through your theory filter QPC123:

I'm closing in on what makes a player 1dribble pull up more often (kinda).

I'm not playing the game right now so these numbers are ball parked but close to accurate.

I can get Dwayne Wade to consistently one dribble pull up (even sometimes from 3pt range.)

His pull up tendency is 52. His shoot from triple threat 100 (I know) and his triple threat tendency is 94. More numbers -- his drive tendency is 42. His attack tendency is 45.

Here is where it gets fun. His 3pt shot tendency is only 36. That's it. His inside shot tendency is 74 and his mid range tendency is mid 60s.

When he catches the ball at the 3pt line in freelance he jab steps then does a 1 dribble pull up (often from a crossover or an in &out dribble). Sometimes he passes before the shot comes out sometimes he shoots, most times he just drives but even when he doesn't get to the rim he pretty consistently does an escape dribble pull up from midrange.

Now for the fun part I gave Lebron all of the same tendencies as Dwayne except for shot locations.

Lebron has a 94 in inside and a 56 for 3pt shot.

Lebron will not one dribble pull up from deep. At All! All of his 3pt attempts are assisted (catch and shoot). When he jab steps he drives hard to the hoop.

Here is my theory (I'll tell it like you do, lol):

Dwayne Wade: "I have the ball in the triple and my coach really wants us to shoot 3's (coach profile 75) but I don't like shooting 3's (36 3pt tendency) I love shooting from the triple threat (100) but this is to deep. Well I should be able to create more space for myself (94 jab step) and I like pulling up (52) so her goes nothing."

Does that seem right.

Because if it does, when I get back to it that means I should be able to achieve similar results if I lower Lebrons triple threat shot to 0. Does that makes sense?

"Coach wants me to shoot a 3, I love shooting 3s (56 3pt tendency) but I hate shooting from triple threat (0???) so I'm gonna pull up (52) from here.

Do you think that will work?
That's a lot of factors in play and that makes it tough to predict.

I don't think that shot tendencies or 'major' tendencies will always override a 'minor' tendency, but it has a greater chance of doing so.

That means, what you are trying to accomplish is reliant on finding the proper spread of all the factors involved to create the results you want at the frequency you want.

I guess that is essentially the goal with all the tendencies.
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Last edited by qpc123; 05-05-2013 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:25 PM   #920
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

I have a question, i want the CPU to do hesitation moves & sizing up moves before driving inside?

I've tried like Straight 0 Size up 50 Hesitation 50 but nothing, same with 100/100/100, 0/0/100 etc...

There is no way to have something that look like this I2KnSlLKO0U <- youtube
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