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Old 04-09-2013, 10:30 AM   #193
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Great discussion... Not sure where but earlier in the thread it was suggested that maybe the inside close and mid tendency on coaching profiles affect the types of plays called. I am not seeing that. From my experience it looks like the higher those numbers are the more likely it is a player will go ahead and shoot from that area...even if it means breaking the play to do so. Now this true on an individual level, but the coaching profile would be a slider for the team..The plays aren't categorized as inside, close, mid so it seems like it would be too complex for the coding to be written that way..considering options plays and the sort.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:48 AM   #194
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

If coach profiles do affect what players are called, shouldn't we have these mimic each team's star(s) player(s)? Don't role players get their shots and points by playing off these guys anyway?
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:51 PM   #195
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperballer21
If coach profiles do affect what players are called, shouldn't we have these mimic each team's star(s) player(s)? Don't role players get their shots and points by playing off these guys anyway?
Holy crap Hype is in on this too!

Coach profile shot tendencies was covered (only a little bit) a few pages back.

Basically someone raised Russell Westbrook close shot to 100 and set Durants to 10. In the coach profile he raised take close shot (I believe) to 100 and the result was 7/8 of the plays being called for Westbrook despite the fact Durant had a similar touch rating.

I can personally attest to seeing this when I was tinkering with the Utah Jazz. I wanted to see more 3s from Hornececk so I raised the 3pt slider while lowering the close and inside slider (coach profile). This resulted in more 3pt plays being called for Hornececk despite his low touch rating. Now Karl Malone was still very much involved in the offense. It's just that instead of low post plays there were a lot more pick and roll plays.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #196
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

If that's true, we need to determine determine what happens when all of the coaching sliders are the same, IE all 50, all 100, etc. My thought on this is, say you start an Association with the Knicks and you set the coaching profile to really work hand-in-hand with Melo's tendencies. What happens if you get a different franchise player who plays nothing like Melo? Would the coaching profile still force him to play like Melo? If so, that wouldn't be good.

I propose this:

1. Pick any team
2. Make a spreadsheet or list of that team's play names along with play types.
3. Set the Coaching Profile to be REALLY heavy in one area, ie Inside 0, Close 0, Mid 100, 3PT 0
4. Run a Coach Mode game with play art turned on so you can see what plays are called. Pay more attention to the play that is called than where the play finishes at on the court.
5. Track the plays that are called based on play type and who the play appears to be called for.
6. Repeat steps 3-5 but change the Coaching Slider to try to influence the AI to call plays more for a different area than before.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:25 PM   #197
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Let me also add this. I haven't seen the Coaching Profiles Shot location Tendencies effect plays that are called at all. All of my Coaching Profiles are set at:

Inside 0
Close 0
Mid 50
3PT 50

Players with low post in their play types get plays called for them frequently, despite the 0 Close Tendency. Players with Cutter as their play type get plays called for them frequently, despite the 0 Inside Tendency. I believe that changing these Tendencies within the Coaching Profiles will influence players to shoot more or less (depending on how you are manipulating the slider) from those areas, but I don't think it drives the AI to call more plays for those areas.

One problem I have with the theory is there are some plays that are under a certain Play Type that are designed to finish in different areas. For example, some Mid-Range Plays are actually designed to finish as a 3PT shot, some PNR's are pops, some fades, some rolls, all ending in different areas, some Cutter plays end at the rim, some in alley oops, some as a mid-range handoff, some as close range handoff's.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #198
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Holy crap Hype is in on this too!

Coach profile shot tendencies was covered (only a little bit) a few pages back.

Basically someone raised Russell Westbrook close shot to 100 and set Durants to 10. In the coach profile he raised take close shot (I believe) to 100 and the result was 7/8 of the plays being called for Westbrook despite the fact Durant had a similar touch rating.

I can personally attest to seeing this when I was tinkering with the Utah Jazz. I wanted to see more 3s from Hornececk so I raised the 3pt slider while lowering the close and inside slider (coach profile). This resulted in more 3pt plays being called for Hornececk despite his low touch rating. Now Karl Malone was still very much involved in the offense. It's just that instead of low post plays there were a lot more pick and roll plays.
Yea I had to jump in on the discussion.

Based off what I have been testing out, I have came to this conclusion. This may have been mentioned before, but I only skimmed through the thread:

The games is hard coded to drive inside. You can have inside, close, and attack basket at zero in coach profiles and game sliders and players will still attack.

So I believe the only things that we should be working with are Mid-range and 3pt tendencies in coach profile and game sliders. I determine that Game sliders are "human instinct" and Coach Profiles are "team strategy".

My biggest issue I have with this game (especially in late game situations) is they don't go for the 3. I want to see a player have some since of urgency and pull up from beyond the arc. I also want to see someone like J.R. Smith come down in transition and pull from deep. It is nice to see Melo in an Iso situation beyond the arc facing up his man in triple threat and when his man plays off him, he pulls up. I currently have both mid-range and 3pt sliders at 100.

The trick here is to balance it out with the coach profiles so you won't have a team taking a 3 each time down the court. I would not put this above 50 for any team. Probably 50 for Knicks and Rockets.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:56 PM   #199
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperballer21
Yea I had to jump in on the discussion.

Based off what I have been testing out, I have came to this conclusion. This may have been mentioned before, but I only skimmed through the thread:

The games is hard coded to drive inside. You can have inside, close, and attack basket at zero in coach profiles and game sliders and players will still attack.

So I believe the only things that we should be working with are Mid-range and 3pt tendencies in coach profile and game sliders. I determine that Game sliders are "human instinct" and Coach Profiles are "team strategy".

My biggest issue I have with this game (especially in late game situations) is they don't go for the 3. I want to see a player have some since of urgency and pull up from beyond the arc. I also want to see someone like J.R. Smith come down in transition and pull from deep. It is nice to see Melo in an Iso situation beyond the arc facing up his man in triple threat and when his man plays off him, he pulls up. I currently have both mid-range and 3pt sliders at 100.

The trick here is to balance it out with the coach profiles so you won't have a team taking a 3 each time down the court. I would not put this above 50 for any team. Probably 50 for Knicks and Rockets.
I agree on all points, except possibly one: are you saying you have Melo's mid-range and 3pt Tendencies at 100 or the in-game slider? I have all Coaching Profiles set to 0 for Attack, Inside Shot and Close Shot. The absolute highest Attack the Basket Tendency I will give a player is 50. I also have my in-game Mid-Range Tendency at 90. Have you tweaked any Hot Spots to influence where players spot up on the court? I have no problems AT ALL with players taking 3PT shots.

I'm watching a CPU game now between the Spurs @ Pacers with all in-game shot location sliders at 50 for testing purposes. Here are some first half stats:

Spurs 53 PTS Pacers 51
Spurs 15 3PTA Pacers 11
Spurs 6 FTA Pacers 10
Spurs 24 PIP Pacers 18
Spurs 15 Assists Pacers 13

Gametrack Data:
Spurs 9 Shots at Rim Pacers 11
Spurs 8 Close Shots (Restricted Area to FT Line) Pacers 7
Spurs 12 Mid-Range Shots (FT Line to 3PT Line) Pacers 15
Spurs 15 3PTA Pacers 11
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:47 PM   #200
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm44
I agree on all points, except possibly one: are you saying you have Melo's mid-range and 3pt Tendencies at 100 or the in-game slider? I have all Coaching Profiles set to 0 for Attack, Inside Shot and Close Shot. The absolute highest Attack the Basket Tendency I will give a player is 50. I also have my in-game Mid-Range Tendency at 90. Have you tweaked any Hot Spots to influence where players spot up on the court? I have no problems AT ALL with players taking 3PT shots.

I'm watching a CPU game now between the Spurs @ Pacers with all in-game shot location sliders at 50 for testing purposes. Here are some first half stats:

Spurs 53 PTS Pacers 51
Spurs 15 3PTA Pacers 11
Spurs 6 FTA Pacers 10
Spurs 24 PIP Pacers 18
Spurs 15 Assists Pacers 13

Gametrack Data:
Spurs 9 Shots at Rim Pacers 11
Spurs 8 Close Shots (Restricted Area to FT Line) Pacers 7
Spurs 12 Mid-Range Shots (FT Line to 3PT Line) Pacers 15
Spurs 15 3PTA Pacers 11
I have adjusted hotspots. I get a good amount of 3pt shots as well, but they are usually open looks through a play, or shooters spotting up in the corner. My goal is to get the game to be dynamic in regards to when a player would pull up from 3.

As for Melo, I don't have HIS midrange and 3pt at 100, I have the game sliders at 100 for each. His mid range and 3pt are at 50 in my roster.
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